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Who are the people on the Trans-Mississippi Expo So-Called Dollar - HK-281, HK-282, HK-283

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 4, 2020 2:37PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I've always been curious who the woman and Native American are on the 1898 Trans-Mississippi Expo So-Called Dollar. Are these based on people, paintings, etc.? And if there's a name for the bison that would be great too :)

Any ideas?

Here's one photographed by PCGS.

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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I looked it up long ago but forget, I know ....no help but, the silver one nicely toned has eluded me
    all these years. It is described as of the the most beautiful of all scd’s

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for that info. A typical American girl was the goal. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting... and a really interesting medal. I did not realize such composite photography was practiced at that time. Cheers, RickO

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,415 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm sure the young girl was intended to be a representation of Miss Liberty which was a popular motif during this era.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2020 1:57AM

    @U1chicago said:
    The sources I found say it's a composite image of 42 women
    (I'm not sure why the first sentence says 44 faces but then it says 42 photographs were received)
    [...]
    https://books.google.com/books?id=Jt4RAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA2-PA2

    Great link! Thanks for finding this!

    Great to know George G. Rockwood was the composite photographer.

    Here's the page again:

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2020 6:47AM

    @PerryHall said:
    I'm sure the young girl was intended to be a representation of Miss Liberty which was a popular motif during this era.

    It's plausible, but I wouldn't immediately jump to that conclusion. While representations of Miss Liberty were certainly popular, the article doesn't indicate this. Also, representations of Miss Liberty tended to be explicit, either with a headband that said "LIBERTY", or the word near the rim of the coin. From the description, it seems like they wanted a representative woman of the region, not necessarily to be Miss Liberty. It would be good to know for sure. Since this is a US Mint medal, perhaps Roger or someone can find some Mint records on this?

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,415 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I'm sure the young girl was intended to be a representation of Miss Liberty which was a popular motif during this era.

    It's plausible, but I wouldn't immediately jump to that conclusion. While representations of Miss Liberty were certainly popular, the article doesn't indicate this. Also, representations of Miss Liberty tended to to be explicit, either with a headband that said "LIBERTY", or the word on the edge of the coin. From the description, it seems like they wanted a representative woman of the region, not necessarily to be Miss Liberty. It would be good to know for sure. Since this is a US Mint medal, perhaps Roger or someone can find some Mint records on this?

    Roger Burdett was banned from here but he's active "across the street". Perhaps you could ask him there and provide him with a link to this thread. I'd also be curious what his thoughts might be on this topic.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @Zoins said:

    @PerryHall said:
    I'm sure the young girl was intended to be a representation of Miss Liberty which was a popular motif during this era.

    It's plausible, but I wouldn't immediately jump to that conclusion. While representations of Miss Liberty were certainly popular, the article doesn't indicate this. Also, representations of Miss Liberty tended to to be explicit, either with a headband that said "LIBERTY", or the word on the edge of the coin. From the description, it seems like they wanted a representative woman of the region, not necessarily to be Miss Liberty. It would be good to know for sure. Since this is a US Mint medal, perhaps Roger or someone can find some Mint records on this?

    Roger Burdett was banned from here but he's active "across the street". Perhaps you could ask him there and provide him with a link to this thread. I'd also be curious what his thoughts might be on this topic.

    That's a possibility. I haven't logged in there for a while. Things were pretty disruptive for me when they changed the login accounts over there and I haven't really gotten used to it yet.

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    Very interesting... and a really interesting medal. I did not realize such composite photography was practiced at that time. Cheers, RickO

    Composite photography was being done quite early. Oscar Rejlander's photo "The Two Ways of Life" was made from 30 different images in 1857!

    All glory is fleeting.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2020 6:05AM

    @291fifth said:

    @ricko said:
    Very interesting... and a really interesting medal. I did not realize such composite photography was practiced at that time. Cheers, RickO

    Composite photography was being done quite early. Oscar Rejlander's photo "The Two Ways of Life" was made from 30 different images in 1857!

    It would be great to see photos of the composite photography process in progress!

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    jedmjedm Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2020 6:30AM

    I am not able to find the source where I read that the Indian on horseback and bison scene was designed by Thomas Rogers Kimball. Here is a short snippet from wikipedia about him:

    Thomas Rogers Kimball (April 19, 1862 – September 7, 1934) was an American architect in Omaha, Nebraska. An architect-in-chief of the** Trans-Mississippi Exposition in Omaha in 1898**, he served as national President of the American Institute of Architects from 1918–1920 and from 1919-1932 served on the Nebraska State Capitol Commission.

    Kimball was credited with pursuing 871 commissions, which included designing 167 new residential buildings and 162 new non-residential structures, served as architectural adviser to commissions responsible for erection of Missouri and Nebraska state capitols, the Kansas City Liberty Memorial, and the Indiana state war memorial in Indianapolis, and was member of national council of fine arts established by U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt to evaluate all plans for public buildings, monuments, and statutes.

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    jedmjedm Posts: 2,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2020 7:40AM

    At the exposition there were about 4 acres of land on which the various native tribes of the trans-Mississippi region were encamped for the duration of the fair.
    The following excerpts are from the History of the Trans-Mississippi Expostiton:

    The Wichitas had with them a typical grass house which had been razed from it's site on the reservation, hauled to the railroad, and then transported by rail to the exposition grounds.
    The Kiowa Apache set up canvas tepees. Suspended in front of one was a genuine, old-time "buffalo shield" - the last shield remaining in the tribe.

    The Sioux were conspicuous by their eagle-feather war bonnets...this delegation set up their tepees in the form of a circle many of them tastefully decorated.

    The Crow delegation brought with them White Swan, a former scout and sole survivor of the Custer massacre, in 1876, in which notable engagement he was shot and hacked almost to pieces and finally left for dead, but managed to save his life by covering himself with the blanket of a dead Dakota. It is interesting to note that this tribe of Indians has never been at war with the whites, but, on the contrary , often furnished a contingent fo scouts for the Government service in the various Indian campaigns of that region.

    The Omaha Indians had with them Wah-tun-num-she, a warrior 73 years old, who recounted in an interesting manner his story of the last battle his tribe had with the Sioux in Nebraska. The spot where the battle occurred is now occupied by the city of Columbus.

    The Flathead delegation was a small one, and was made up of three different tribes closely allied, speaking practically the same dialect and having the same dress and general appearance.

    The Sac and Fox tribes were well represented, These Indians live in round-top wigwams, which they cover with mats of rushes and carpet the floors thereof with like material. Several of these wigwams were erected on the grounds.

    The Tonkawa delegation was a small one, but interesting from the fact that they were on the verge of extinction...they are the sole representatives of the Indians of the old Alamo mission, whose most tragic incident had its parallel in the massacre that practically wiped out their tribe. There were only 53 survivors, and they lived on land allotted to them in eastern Oklahoma.

    No little interest attached to the band of Apache Indians from Ft. Sill, Okla., by reason of the fact that the famous chief, Geronimo was of their number, together with his able lieutenant, Nachie. Being military prisoners they were housed in army tents, but visitors had an opportunity of seeing them at work making baskets, canes, and beaded-work, which they readily disposed of.

    The tepees of the Blackfeet Indians attracted no little attention because of the fact that most of them were made of hides of deer or buffalo, painted and decorated with scenes representative of the chase.

    The tepees of the Assiniboines were also covered with pictures, the painting indicating some skill in that direction on the part of the artist.

    The Kiowa Apaches, an associated tribe of the Kiowas ... Their chief, "Whiteman," occupied a tepee decorated with the arms, a bear, which was his guardian.

    The Pueblos were housed in adobe or sun-dried brick buildings erected by them with brick they had previously made on the ground in a primitive manner.

    Interesting ceremonies were carried out by the various Indian tribes, notably the ghost dance of the pains tribes, the mounted horn dance of the Wichitas and the war dance and devil dance of the Apache, the latter performed by firelight, a clown and other masked characters taking part.

    Edited to add:

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    ms70ms70 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2020 8:05AM

    Interesting that they put the bust on what is noted as the reverse.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 28, 2020 11:17PM

    The composite figure reminds me of Frances Folsom, wife of President Grover Cleveland.

    She's on this campaign medal I have for the 1887 Goodwill Tour:

    https://www.whitehousehistory.org/president-grover-clevelands-goodwill-tour-of-1887

    Here's a photo from Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frances_Cleveland

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2020 12:14AM

    Some more information on Frances Folsom Cleveland. At 21, she was the youngest 1st lady in 1886. She was just 22 a year later in 1887 for the tour for my medal.

    Here's some info from the Library of Congress:

    https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-frances-cleveland

    US Library of Congress wrote:

    Frances Cleveland: Topics in Chronicling America

    In 1886, Frances Cleveland became the youngest first lady in United States history. This guide provides access to materials related to "Frances Cleveland” in the Chronicling America digital collection of historic newspapers.

    Frances Folsom Cleveland, the youngest First Lady in U.S. history, was an exceptionally beautiful and charming young woman. Following her marriage to Grover Cleveland, she became an overnight tabloid media sensation. A frenzied press began to cover her every movement and fashion statement. Her popularity became so great that when reporters made up a story that Frances had stopped wearing a bustle, everyone stopped wearing them—including Frances. During her two White House tenures as First Lady, Frances helped strengthen the Secret Service and promote free Kindergarten education for all.

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    coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,664 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nothing to add other than my example. I was drawn to this piece because of the toning
    around her neck......looks like it could be her necklace.
    .

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2020 2:44AM

    @coinsarefun said:
    Nothing to add other than my example. I was drawn to this piece because of the toning
    around her neck......looks like it could be her necklace.


    Beautiful specimen Stef! I love the toning ring. That looks like it was struck yesterday, I mean today!

    Thanks for posting it :)

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