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Ruth Bader Ginsburg SIgned Supreme Court Card

philographerphilographer Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

Here's a signature from perhaps 1994 or 1995. It was in my collection up until a couple days ago... I hadn't been aware that she apparently stopped signing around 1997. Anyone know the story of why she stopped?

Comparison is the thief of all joy.

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Comments

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Apparently she caught on that some people were selling them. If course, at the time they vakue would have been pretty low and once she stopped signing the value went up. She inadvertantly promoted the behavior she opposed. :/

    I am trying to do an inventory of my RBGs. I have a few that I can play my hands on and possibly a few others I need to dig out of the archives.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sort of like Neil Armstrong. who stopped signing a couple decades before he passed away. The value of his signature skyrocketed even while was alive.

    I am not sure that RBG will have the same longterm value, though.

  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 2,410 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 21,553 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The end of signing seems to have roughly coincided with the advent of online auctions. Once the signers realized their signatures were quickly being sold online many seemed to have cut off signing. I don't blame them for doing so.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,733 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    The end of signing seems to have roughly coincided with the advent of online auctions. Once the signers realized their signatures were quickly being sold online many seemed to have cut off signing. I don't blame them for doing so.

    I think the logical answer is to sign anything for anyone! Except a legal courier of course. :p

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ms70 said:

    @291fifth said:
    The end of signing seems to have roughly coincided with the advent of online auctions. Once the signers realized their signatures were quickly being sold online many seemed to have cut off signing. I don't blame them for doing so.

    I think the logical answer is to sign anything for anyone! Except a legal courier of course. :p

    A couple celebrities took this route over the years and it worked to depress the market for their signature.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Sort of like Neil Armstrong. who stopped signing a couple decades before he passed away. The value of his signature skyrocketed even while was alive.

    I am not sure that RBG will have the same longterm value, though.

    I collected autographs through the mail pretty heavily in 2005-2006 and wrote all nine Supreme Court Justices. I remember getting Ruth Bader Ginsburg on a Chambers Card just like the one picture in the original post. Unfortunately in 2011 I sold a vast majority of my autograph collection because I had no income and needed some money. Little did I know that RBG stopped signing so I foolishly sold the autograph along with the other 4 Supreme Court Justices (Stevens, Thomas, Souter and Alito) for $10 ($2 each).

    It was only a few years later that I realized her autograph skyrocket to over $1000. Really kicking myself for that. I remember when I was collecting through the mail how badly I wanted Neil Armstrong’s autograph and how he used to sign but stopped around 1994.

    Now that I am getting a little bit back into collecting autographs I am still wanting an Armstrong. Fortunately I recently found a nice RBG autograph (had to settle for personalized so I could afford it) and very happy to have her autograph in my small collection of autographs of people I admire. I am aware it will probably go down in value over the next few years (as many autographs do a few years after their passing). However, Armstrong being as historic as he is has retained his value which is understandable.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 16, 2021 10:31AM

    I just got my one Neil Armstrong authenticated (emailed quick opinion) and it got the thumbs up which was a relief. I knew it was real but there are just so many fakes out there.

    $2 each for SC cards... ouch. Most of those who are still around don't send out those cards anymore. I have not managed to get a Thomas card but I did get several letters some years ago when replies were easier, and I did get a handwritten note recently (I guess they were working from home).

    I tend to use a scattershot approach and accumulate what I can, when I can. Over time much of it becomes somewhat desirable as the signing habits become more clear (or change).

    I think Armstrong isn't going down, ever. Even if there are more moon walkers and Mars walkers, etc., he was the first and will only increase in importance. And was apparently easy to get for years. :| I wish I started sooner.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021 1:33PM

    @JBK said:
    I am trying to do an inventory of my RBGs. I have a few that I can play my hands on and possibly a few others I need to dig out of the archives.

    I would love to see pictures of those someday whenever you do dig them out.

    I have wanted to write Sonia Sotomayor but it appears she does not sign ttm anymore. My plan was going to be to have her sign a photo of her swearing in Kamala Harris. I was also going to try to get her to sign a Chambers Card but sadly it looks like she hasn’t responded to fan mail in years. 😭

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021 2:44PM

    That is funny about Sotomayor. When she first got in she frequently replied with notes and letters, but I never did get a chambers card.

    If anyone could get her to sign a pic it would be you.

    If you can't get in thru the Supreme Court, keep in mind that during summers many of the justices do residencies or professor gigs in different places.

    Edited to add: I just remembered that I got a letter back from her less than three years ago. I recall it because I was recovering from minor surgery and I had time to write letters, and i must have mentioned it to her because she mentioned it in her reply. So, you might have a chance for some kind of reply. If you didn't want to risk the photo you could start with a letter about her role in the historic swearing in.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    That is funny about Sotomayor. When she first got in she frequently replied with notes and letters, but I never did get a chambers card.

    If anyone could get her to sign a pic it would be you.

    If you can't get in thru the Supreme Court, keep in mind that during summers many of the justices do residencies or professor gigs in different places.

    Edited to add: I just remembered that I got a letter back from her less than three years ago. I recall it because I was recovering from minor surgery and I had time to write letters, and i must have mentioned it to her because she mentioned it in her reply. So, you might have a chance for some kind of reply. If you didn't want to risk the photo you could start with a letter about her role in the historic swearing in.

    I might give her a try then. I will have to figure out the address to use in the summer. I think I will try sending it to that address.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    Does anyone have a working address to write Sonia Sotomayor? I know she doesn’t appear to sign ttm, but does anyone have an address that at least gets mail to her? I believe the Supreme Court building is still closed so I don’t want to send there as it will just sit until the pandemic is over and by then she will have so much waiting for her that it will likely get thrown away or ignored. I want to attempt her ttm at an address that’s more currently active. Thanks.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No idea on alternate addresses, but I did get a handwritten reply from Clarence Thomas a few months ago. I assume he wrote it while "working from home". :)

    Not sure how they'd handle a photo that was sent it.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    No idea on alternate addresses, but I did get a handwritten reply from Clarence Thomas a few months ago. I assume he wrote it while "working from home". :)

    Not sure how they'd handle a photo that was sent it.

    Handwritten reply from Thomas? Wow! Was that from the Supreme Court address?

    I am not going to send the photo right away. Mainly just want to get an autograph from Sotomayor — be it on a letter or card they provide.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:

    @JBK said:
    No idea on alternate addresses, but I did get a handwritten reply from Clarence Thomas a few months ago. I assume he wrote it while "working from home". :)

    Not sure how they'd handle a photo that was sent it.

    Handwritten reply from Thomas? Wow! Was that from the Supreme Court address?

    I am not going to send the photo right away. Mainly just want to get an autograph from Sotomayor — be it on a letter or card they provide.

    Yes, good old US Supreme Court, Washington, DC 20543.

    Just my opinion....find something interesting she has said or written or done and send a letter to her about it.

    I have decided that the best responses I get from certain people are when I just send a sincere letter about something relevant, without asking for anything. I recently got a great handwritten letter from a former president (too soon to post pics) in response to a sincere and personal note I sent to him. I am sure that they (and their staff) can tell when a letter is sincere and that puts it in a different category than regular fan mail.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2021 12:53PM

    Wanted to add....

    During the pandemic and the isolation there may be some unique opportunities as certain people are without their regular office staff. It might be harder to get a letter through to someone, but if it does get through it might get more personal attention. I suspect my two recent handwritten replies are evidence of that.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    If anyone has anything signed by Ruth Bader Ginsburg please share your pictures of what you got.

    Sadly the RBG autograph I had in my original collection which I got ttm in 2005 on a Chambers Card was sold in 2011 with the rest of my collection. Unfortunately, I don’t have a photo of it.

    Since I slowly resumed collecting autographs again in late 2020, I decided to purchase this. It’s personalized but that’s why I could afford it.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    Looks like RBG signed chambers cards are starting to go down in price. They were going for $1200 when I started looking in October 2020, and now it looks like they are going for around $950. Maybe in a few years they will be a lot more affordable?

  • philographerphilographer Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:
    Looks like RBG signed chambers cards are starting to go down in price. They were going for $1200 when I started looking in October 2020, and now it looks like they are going for around $950. Maybe in a few years they will be a lot more affordable?

    Agree. In September 2020 the going rate was $1,700. Expect these to get to the $400 range in the next few years.

    Comparison is the thief of all joy.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @philographer said:

    Agree. In September 2020 the going rate was $1,700. Expect these to get to the $400 range in the next few years.

    That will be nice. I think I will wait until then to buy one.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know "someone" who sold one for $1300 several months ago, so I'd say they are drifting downward, as expected.

  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:
    If anyone has anything signed by Ruth Bader Ginsburg please share your pictures of what you got.

    I got this one in the fall of 1997 but have always assumed it was an autopen. Also one from David Souter in a similar photo format, from 1998.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @ernie11 said:

    @JMS1223 said:
    If anyone has anything signed by Ruth Bader Ginsburg please share your pictures of what you got.

    I got this one in the fall of 1997 but have always assumed it was an autopen. Also one from David Souter in a similar photo format, from 1998.

    That’s authentic. I am 100% confident.

  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:

    @ernie11 said:

    @JMS1223 said:
    If anyone has anything signed by Ruth Bader Ginsburg please share your pictures of what you got.

    I got this one in the fall of 1997 but have always assumed it was an autopen. Also one from David Souter in a similar photo format, from 1998.

    That’s authentic. I am 100% confident.

    Really? What makes you think so?

  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    BTW, here's the one by Souter. In both these cases, I had to take enormously sized scanned images and downsize them proportionately, I don't see any obvious distortion, though.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @ernie11 said:

    @JMS1223 said:

    @ernie11 said:

    @JMS1223 said:
    If anyone has anything signed by Ruth Bader Ginsburg please share your pictures of what you got.

    I got this one in the fall of 1997 but have always assumed it was an autopen. Also one from David Souter in a similar photo format, from 1998.

    That’s authentic. I am 100% confident.

    Really? What makes you think so?

    There are no autopen patterns that match and that looks exactly like her signature should. I have studied her signature and handwriting and seen many similar signed photos but none are 100% exact meaning not autopen.

    @ernie11 said:
    BTW, here's the one by Souter. In both these cases, I had to take enormously sized scanned images and downsize them proportionately, I don't see any obvious distortion, though.

    I also believe this to be 100% authentic. The only Supreme Court Justices that I know used autopen within the last 15-20 years are Sandra Day O’Connor and William Rehnquist but they have been authentic many times too so if you got them (especially if received the last 5 years of their tenure) I would take a look at those.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think Ginsburg or Souter used autopens.

    Souter was a generous signer while at the SC and Ginsburg was for her first few years until she stopped replying. There's no need for an autopen if they aren't going to reply. ;)

    I am not sure if I ever got that type of photo from any of them. Is it printed on paper?

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2021 1:39PM

    @JMS1223 said:

    The only Supreme Court Justices that I know used autopen within the last 15-20 years are Sandra Day O’Connor and William Rehnquist but they have been authentic many times too so if you got them (especially if received the last 5 years of their tenure) I would take a look at those.

    William Brennan also used an autopen (more than 20 years ago, though) and I think I got an autopen from Anthony Kennedy once.

    But I agree on Rehnquist and O'Connor for sure.

    As I recall, genuine O'Connors were signed in the upper half of the chambers card (closer to the printed text at the top) and the autopens were signed in the middle of the card.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2021 7:16AM

    @JBK said:

    I am not sure if I ever got that type of photo from any of them. Is it printed on paper?

    I don’t own one but from my understanding these are on semi-gloss paper (like a magazine type paper) and measure around 6x9 inches.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:

    @JBK said:

    I am not sure if I ever got that type of photo from any of them. Is it printed on paper?

    I don’t own one but from my understanding these are on semi-gloss paper (like a magazine type paper) and measure around 6x9 inches.

    @JMS1223 said:

    @JBK said:

    I am not sure if I ever got that type of photo from any of them. Is it printed on paper?

    I don’t own one but from my understanding these are on semi-gloss paper (like a magazine type paper) and measure around 6x9 inches.

    Thx. That was my understanding as well.

    I've seen letters from justices to autograph seekers in the 1970s or early 1980s telling them where they can go to buy photos of the justices that they could then send to be autographed. The SC apparently had no budget for autographed photos.

    I always thought those paper ones they started sending out were kind of cheap but maybe that's the reason why.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    >

    I've seen letters from justices to autograph seekers in the 1970s or early 1980s telling them where they can go to buy photos of the justices that they could then send to be autographed. The SC apparently had no budget for autographed photos.

    I always thought those paper ones they started sending out were kind of cheap but maybe that's the reason why.

    I have heard that too. You could buy them in the gift shop at the Supreme Court Building. I think those ones were probably on photo paper but I am not sure. They also probably sold the group photo of the nine Supreme Court Justices sitting together.

    When I wrote the nine Justices in 2005-2006 I was ignorant to the fact that these photos were slightly larger than 6x9 and my SASE was 6x9 so they did not fit. I sent a 3x5 index card to each Justice not knowing if they all had Chambers Cards. As a result of sending the smaller SASE, I never got any photos. Had I sent the larger envelopes I probably would had gotten photos and Chambers Cards or maybe just photos. I remember getting authentic autographs from RBG, Souter, Stevens, Alito, Kennedy, and Thomas (I believe I got a hand signed letter from him too thanking me for writing). All on Chambers Cards except Stevens which was on a 3x5 index card I sent. I never got a response at all from Scalia, Breyer, Rehnquist and I don’t think I wrote O’Connor since she was only autopen at the time. So sad I sold these in a lot in 2011 for $10, not knowing they had any real value, to a dealer at a flea market. I had contacted the dealer again last year and he had no recollection that I ever sold him these, or anything for that matter. The Alito I remember being personalized to me so if they ever show up as a lot, I will know.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You did pretty good. I never got Alito, Kennedy (except presumed autopen), or Stevens. I got lots of Thomas but all on letters.

    That flea market dealer was either clueless or a cheater. :*

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    Forgot to mention I did get John Roberts when he first got in but it was autopen. The Alito I got was also just weeks after he got in and it was personalized in his own hand - unlike many that came after where he had the dedication typed and then he signed under it authentically. Not sure how long he signed but just saw one similar to mine (personalized with handwritten inscription) that failed to sell for $10. So maybe he was a good singer for a while.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I did get Gorsuch in letters a few times when he very first got in. I have also gotten multiple letters from Kagan and Sotomayor over the years.

    It's all about making a personal connection. For example, when I heard that Kagan became friends with Scalia and that he took her deer hunting, I wrote to her to ask if she had a deer head on her wall. She replied that she did not, but that she had many memories of their times together.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    That’s pretty cool. I really want a Sotomayor autograph. I should try writing her an interesting letter to see if I can score one.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely write to her. Don't ask her for anything, just thank her for something, commend her, etc.

    I do know she supports and promotes the integrity of the Court against partisanship.

  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:

    @JBK said:

    I am not sure if I ever got that type of photo from any of them. Is it printed on paper?

    I don’t own one but from my understanding these are on semi-gloss paper (like a magazine type paper) and measure around 6x9 inches.

    Yes, that's what mine are like - a semi-gloss paper, 6 x 9.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is one I come across today.

    I sent Neil Gorsuch an engraving of the Supreme Court after he was nominated but before he was confirmed. He sent this, along with a letter on Appeals Court letterhead, a week or two before he was sworn in.

    I did also get a thank you letter after I sent a letter congratulating him on being sworn in, but I think early on he joined most of the rest and stopped sending autographs.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    Pretty neat and very rare to see his signature.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I tried the same thing with Kavenaugh but never heard back. :/

    I also did this with Ginsburg way back when. A year or two went by and I finally got the signed engraving back with a letter from her office apologizing and saying it had been packed away and misplaced during her move to the SC.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    I tried the same thing with Kavenaugh but never heard back. :/

    I also did this with Ginsburg way back when. A year or two went by and I finally got the signed engraving back with a letter from her office apologizing and saying it had been packed away and misplaced during her move to the SC.

    That’s too bad. Did you ever try Amy Coney Barrett? I have never seen an example of her signature so I am thinking she doesn’t sign at all, or at least not right now.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 9, 2021 10:38AM

    @JMS1223 said:

    @JBK said:
    I tried the same thing with Kavenaugh but never heard back. :/

    I also did this with Ginsburg way back when. A year or two went by and I finally got the signed engraving back with a letter from her office apologizing and saying it had been packed away and misplaced during her move to the SC.

    That’s too bad. Did you ever try Amy Coney Barrett? I have never seen an example of her signature so I am thinking she doesn’t sign at all, or at least not right now.

    I never tried sending anything to her to sign but I did send her a few letters before and after her confirmation. But, no replies. :(

    My guess is that most modern justices will be very scarce from here on out.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    I guess too many people flooded the Justices with requests and/or mail so the signing came to an end. :'(

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:
    I guess too many people flooded the Justices with requests and/or mail so the signing came to an end. :'(

    That, plus a lot of it went straight to ebay.

    I see some of that nonsense going on now with other celebrities.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    I was watching an RBG signed photo similar to the one posted by ernie11 that had a starting bid of only $10. The seller got it ttm years ago and probably didn’t know it was worth much (they had no other autographs in their other items for sale, or even sold items). It had a week to go so I decided to watch it and see if I could get it cheap. https://ebay.com/itm/174798451588 It turns out someone must had messaged the seller, asked them to put a Buy It Now for $100 and bought it. Makes me mad I didn’t think to do that. $100 is a steal. I was willing to go $400.

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2021 12:59PM

    Wow!!!

    Was there a best offer option on the auction? Sometimes there is, and once or twice I have had offers accepted.

    If they opened the RBG at $10 then you are right about them not knowing. If someone offered $100 the seller probably figured they had struck paydirt and jumped at the offer.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @JBK said:
    Wow!!!

    Was there a best offer option on the auction? Sometimes there is, and once or twice I have had offers accepted.

    No best offer when I first saw it posted yesterday at just a $10 opening bid. The best offer happened sometime today before I noticed and someone snagged it.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    I have been thinking about the Supreme Court again lately due to some major cases coming this Fall.

    I am thinking the Supreme Court and other Federal places are responding less to mail possibly due to covid and/or the significant slow down of mail (which is also due to covid).

    I have written to the Supreme Court a few times this year but have thus far not received anything in return. That got me thinking — has anyone received anything (even a printed response) or anyone know if SCOTUS have indeed been much less responsive in the last year or two?

    I hope when/if covid is over that mail and responses from SCOTUS and other Federal offices returns. I miss even getting the printed/form responses.

  • JMS1223JMS1223 Posts: 347 ✭✭✭

    @ernie11 said:

    @JMS1223 said:
    If anyone has anything signed by Ruth Bader Ginsburg please share your pictures of what you got.

    I got this one in the fall of 1997 but have always assumed it was an autopen. Also one from David Souter in a similar photo format, from 1998.

    If you are ever interested in selling this I would be interested in buying it. I know you probably don’t but if you ever change your mind or decide it doesn’t fit your collection you can message me and I’ll be more than happy to take it off your hands. 😁

    I have noticed less and less RBG autographs being available on eBay except those super overpriced ($1600 for a Chambers Card). I don’t know if supply has dried up or prices went up so people are holding? I would be surprised though as prices were heading down in the Spring then suddenly the listings for RBG signed items went down. Another thought is eBay policies had changed around that time too and a lot of people decided to quit selling on eBay altogether (such as myself). Not sure whereas to buy (I don’t do social media).

  • JBKJBK Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JMS1223 said:
    I have been thinking about the Supreme Court again lately due to some major cases coming this Fall.

    I am thinking the Supreme Court and other Federal places are responding less to mail possibly due to covid and/or the significant slow down of mail (which is also due to covid).

    I have written to the Supreme Court a few times this year but have thus far not received anything in return. That got me thinking — has anyone received anything (even a printed response) or anyone know if SCOTUS have indeed been much less responsive in the last year or two?

    I hope when/if covid is over that mail and responses from SCOTUS and other Federal offices returns. I miss even getting the printed/form responses.

    Early this year I got a handwritten note from Clarence Thomas and more recently a Gorsuch autopen on a letter. That's about it.

    I attribute the Thomas handwritten note to probably working from home. The Gorsuch was a decent response in theory but of course ultimately no good.

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