Structuring a type set of Latin American Early Republic Crowns

Boosibri

I spent some time this morning putting together what I would call a type set of Latin American crowns from the republics which emerged post Spanish rule. The general criteria for inclusion was 1) must be a Republic (i.e no early Brazil), 2) Focus on the period until roughly 1850 (skipping later dated pieces to focus on the early coins for the early republics), 3) Use KM #'s to differentiate between separate issues vs. variants within an issue (Coquimbo is a separate issue vs. the mints of South Peru are not).

I did break a few criteria right off of the bat... first being that the 1813,1815 and 1826-1836 Argentina pieces all have separate KM numbers but I didn't see them as being wholly different. Perhaps 1813 & 1815 (Potosi) as one and 1826-1836 (Rioja) as another.

I am also debating whether to drop the last Bolivian 8 Soles from 1852-1856 off of the list. Feels like Bolivian Busts of Bolivar are well represented already.

Should I add the Argentinian Peso from 1881-1883, the Brazilian 2000 Reis from 1889 (the first Brazilian Republic coin), and the Paraguay Peso from 1889

What am I missing? Any coins you would add to the list? Any you would take out? If so, why?

Abuelo

Very comprehensive. I think it is interesting that you separate the Hooknecks from the C&R. During the series there are different variations on the eagle with the Hooknecks being one of them. But the list looks good.

bidask

I like your list...well thought out.....

"Should I add the Argentinian Peso from 1881-1883, the Brazilian 2000 Reis from 1889 (the first Brazilian Republic coin), and the Paraguay Peso from 1889'".....Yes

scubafuel

Great list. I’ve actually been working on a set like this for about a year now. I eliminated the Bolivar crowns because busts of leaders are pretty dull compared to the other designs.
That’s such a cool time period in Latin/South American coinage, full of hope that shows through in the coinage. Then a lot of that fades away and we get a bunch of portraits again.

Boosibri

@scubafuel said:
Great list. I’ve actually been working on a set like this for about a year now. I eliminated the Bolivar crowns because busts of leaders are pretty dull compared to the other designs.
That’s such a cool time period in Latin/South American coinage, full of hope that shows through in the coinage. Then a lot of that fades away and we get a bunch of portraits again.

Anything on your list that I am missing?

Euclid

This is a very interesting idea for a set covering a lot of geography at a very interesting time, and featuring a lot of design variety on the coins.

What changes would members suggest for the budget minded collector? For example one could omit the hookneck and the 1831 CAR 8 reales from Costa Rica without losing much design variety but saving a considerable sum.

Similarly, what grade range would people consider possible for a consistent and attractive set?

Boosibri

@Euclid said:
This is a very interesting idea for a set covering a lot of geography at a very interesting time, and featuring a lot of design variety on the coins.

What changes would members suggest for the budget minded collector? For example one could omit the hookneck and the 1831 CAR 8 reales from Costa Rica without losing much design variety but saving a considerable sum.

Similarly, what grade range would people consider possible for a consistent and attractive set?

I think a full set and perhaps a basic set could be done if in registry form. Merge the 1831-CR into the Guatemalan pieces. The Coquimbo into the other Chilean pieces, the Rebel 8 Reales to the previous type. That change alone could save you $100k.

Boosibri

Here is a focused list with some adds and subtractions based on above.

Top50SetBuilder

Honduras Peso. A little later than your time period but a great type when well struck.

El Salvador Flag peso.

Ecuador 5 Francos

Dominican Republic 5F and Peso

Venezuela 5R

bidask

@Top50SetBuilder said:
Honduras Peso. A little later than your time period but a great type when well struck.

El Salvador Flag peso.

Ecuador 5 Francos

Dominican Republic 5F and Peso

Venezuela 5R

good suggestions

MrEureka

Although more knowledgeable numismatists call this a pattern struck at a foreign mint, I suspect that it is a homegrown regular issue. I would use it to represent Paraguay and skip the later issues.

Boosibri

@MrEureka said:
Although more knowledgeable numismatists call this a pattern struck at a foreign mint, I suspect that it is a homegrown regular issue. I would use it to repress Paraguay and skip the later issues.

Good call. What else do you think should change?

MrEureka

I would include the coins of the Mexican War for Independence. Maybe just the insurgent issues, to stay on theme.

And Iturbide.

Abuelo

@MrEureka , Iturbide is excluded as he wants Republican issues, @Boosibri is already excluding Imperial Brazil.

MrEureka

@Abuelo said:
@MrEureka , Iturbide is excluded as he wants Republican issues, @Boosibri is already excluding Imperial Brazil.

True. Then again, rules are meant to be broken.

Abuelo

You have a point @MrEureka

scubafuel

I've got a ways to go but this will be a fun and challenging set to put together. I like the more focused list you provided, and don't have anything to add to it.
Are there any proclamation pieces from this time period that would be good additions? Some of them are beautiful.

Eddi

That is a very complete and representative listing of early Latin American republic crowns.

If I may, with regard to Chile, I would suggest including all three 1817 Chile Independiente Pesos. That, is, 1817 FJ. 1817 without assayer, and finally 1817 FD. Issued in that sequence as the mint struggled with having competent assayers to assay the first national coinage. 1000 of these pesos were sent to Argentina as symbolic recognition of the Argentinian contribution toward the Chilean cause.

Historically, and I assume that is one criteria for the list, these 3 issues are the most representative and symbolic as they were issued right after the Battle of Chacabuco (February 1817) which sealed the faith of the royalist cause in Chile, and their final defeat. It was the start of the Chilean Republic.

Finally, I would suggest also including an example of the 1867 Peso (with denomination '1 PESO' instead of 'UN PESO'. This issue was very shorty lived just one year and is fondly called in Chile the "Peso Pechugon" in reference to the hefty plumage on the Condor which made stacking of the coins difficult causing their withdrawal. I would say all major Chilean collectors strive to include an example in their collections.

Eddi

With regard to Peru, again, your list is comprehensive as it includes the 1822-1823 "Peru Libre" type (first national coinage and allegedly designed by San Martin himself, therefor also called Peso de San Martin), as well as the issues for North and South Peru.

If I was able to put together such a set I would include an example of the 5 Pesetas coins issued during the Chilean occupation of Lima in the War of the Pacific. These were struck in both Lima and Ayacucho and are very beautiful coins. The Ayacucho coins are most interesting as they represent an attempt by the Peruvian government to re-establish authority and national pride during and immediately following the Chilean occupation of the country.

Boosibri

@Eddi said:
That is a very complete and representative listing of early Latin American republic crowns.

If I may, with regard to Chile, I would suggest including all three 1817 Chile Independiente Pesos. That, is, 1817 FJ. 1817 without assayer, and finally 1817 FD. Issued in that sequence as the mint struggled with having competent assayers to assay the first national coinage. 1000 of these pesos were sent to Argentina as symbolic recognition of the Argentinian contribution toward the Chilean cause.

Historically, and I assume that is one criteria for the list, these 3 issues are the most representative and symbolic as they were issued right after the Battle of Chacabuco (February 1817) which sealed the faith of the royalist cause in Chile, and their final defeat. It was the start of the Chilean Republic.

Finally, I would suggest also including an example of the 1867 Peso (with denomination '1 PESO' instead of 'UN PESO'. This issue was very shorty lived just one year and is fondly called in Chile the "Peso Pechugon" in reference to the hefty plumage on the Condor which made stacking of the coins difficult causing their withdrawal. I would say all major Chilean collectors strive to include an example in their collections.

Yes, of certainly agree that all three issues should be included for a slot in the set. I am not as familiar with the Peso Pechugon as I should be. I'll do some more reading and consider adding it. Thanks for your input!

Boosibri

@Eddi said:
With regard to Peru, again, your list is comprehensive as it includes the 1822-1823 "Peru Libre" type (first national coinage and allegedly designed by San Martin himself, therefor also called Peso de San Martin), as well as the issues for North and South Peru.

If I was able to put together such a set I would include an example of the 5 Pesetas coins issued during the Chilean occupation of Lima in the War of the Pacific. These were struck in both Lima and Ayacucho and are very beautiful coins. The Ayacucho coins are most interesting as they represent an attempt by the Peruvian government to re-establish authority and national pride during and immediately following the Chilean occupation of the country.

Good input again. I stayed away from the 5P as I had lot of representation for early Peru but as I think about a set including it along with other later issues may make sense.

MrEureka

Another piece to consider adding is the (1841) Carrillo countermarked 8 Reales of Costa Rica. Perhaps some other countermarked issues, if we give it some thought.

Que_sai_je

Seems to me, off the top of my head, that you could use a Salvador 1861, the Guatemala Columbus pattern (first distinctly different crown design after independence), and a Grenadine Peso (different territory than preceding or following iterations). Of course, the 1854 is elusive but that hasn't stopped you before. All slightly post 1850 but that seems arbitrary to me. If you did that, an 1863 10 reales might be in order.

Abuelo

@MrEureka is right, there are different counter marks in Central American coinage during the period.

MrEureka

@Que_sai_je said:
Seems to me, off the top of my head, that you could use a Salvador 1861, the Guatemala Columbus pattern (first distinctly different crown design after independence), and a Grenadine Peso (different territory than preceding or following iterations). Of course, the 1854 is elusive but that hasn't stopped you before. All slightly post 1850 but that seems arbitrary to me. If you did that, an 1863 10 reales might be in order.

If we’re adding the Barrios and Columbus patterns, we might as well add an 1850 Costa Rica Peso!

Boosibri

@Que_sai_je said:
Seems to me, off the top of my head, that you could use a Salvador 1861, the Guatemala Columbus pattern (first distinctly different crown design after independence), and a Grenadine Peso (different territory than preceding or following iterations). Of course, the 1854 is elusive but that hasn't stopped you before. All slightly post 1850 but that seems arbitrary to me. If you did that, an 1863 10 reales might be in order.

Love the Guatemalan Columbus, but aren't there only 2 examples known (at least that is what Prober stated in Historia Numismatica de Guatemala)?

Boosibri

I am sure that @MrEureka has hoarded away all of the Central American patterns as the natural confluence of his two primarily focus areas.

scubafuel

Once the list is finalized, I'd love to see if we can collectively post one of each on that list, in order.

Boosibri

@scubafuel said:
Once the list is finalized, I'd love to see if we can collectively post one of each on that list, in order.

Once it is finalized I’m going to ask PCGS in add it to the set registry