Cast Trade Dollars

ilmcoins

When did these first hit the market? I bought a collection that was supposedly willed to the seller over 50 years ago. All of the coins came back straight graded however there was a T$1 that came back labeled as cast. Maybe these have been around longer than I thought!

MilkmanDan

Using the term "trade dollar" more broadly, they have been faked for a very long time. The coin above was likely made in the early 1810-1820's, despite the 1780 date which makes no sense, since genuine Ferdinand VII bust coins of this type were first made in 1812. This one also shows a few chopmarks, probably an attempt to add legitimacy to the fake.

I know you're probably referring to U.S. trade dollars, but as you can see the fakes go way back.

DDR

Fakes go way way back. That's one of the reasons chop marks began in the first place.

Jimnight

Tons of fakes

ricko

Trade dollars have been faked for a long time.... as mentioned above, that was a primary driver of chop marks... Be careful... be vewy, vewy careful as Elmer Fudd would say... Cheers, RickO

kaz

I haven't seen many cast fake trade dollars, as they are fairly inefficient to make, the vast majority I see are struck from dies made using genuine coins as templates. A cast fake trade dollar may be somewhat collectible, as a fake, in its own right.

Crypto

@OriginalDan said:

Using the term "trade dollar" more broadly, they have been faked for a very long time. The coin above was likely made in the early 1810-1820's, despite the 1780 date which makes no sense, since genuine Ferdinand VII bust coins of this type were first made in 1812. This one also shows a few chopmarks, probably an attempt to add legitimacy to the fake.

I know you're probably referring to U.S. trade dollars, but as you can see the fakes go way back.

Is that silver Dan? Do you know the chops are fake. Could they be warning chops

AUandAG

Post pics please.

bob

MilkmanDan

@Crypto said:

@OriginalDan said:

Using the term "trade dollar" more broadly, they have been faked for a very long time. The coin above was likely made in the early 1810-1820's, despite the 1780 date which makes no sense, since genuine Ferdinand VII bust coins of this type were first made in 1812. This one also shows a few chopmarks, probably an attempt to add legitimacy to the fake.

I know you're probably referring to U.S. trade dollars, but as you can see the fakes go way back.

Is that silver Dan? Do you know the chops are fake. Could they be warning chops

I haven't done a scan so I don't know specifics, but I believe it's a lower grade/concentration of silver. I don't know the chops are fake, and haven't yet analyzed the characters. Good idea though.

DDR

Interesting as to whether or not the chops are fake. If they are real, that raises all sorts of interesting questions.

SaorAlba

One differentiation that needs to be brought up is that the early fakes were monetary counterfeits, the later ones are numismatic counterfeits. The former have some value as historical relics while the latter are just junk.

thebeav

When I was a kid, in metal shop, we made molds from plaster of paris and cast coins out of lead.
Over the years, I've seen hundreds of lead counterfeit coins.......