1754-Mo MM, crowns alike, 8 reales. Still rare?

JesseKraft

I came across this census that discussed the rarity of the 1754-Mo MM, crowns alike, 8 reales. It's a tad dated (2000), so I was wondering if the rarity of this coin still holds true? Birt was able to identify 26 coins from 19 different sets of dies, which is itself kind of astounding as it means that were only 1 or 2 coins known for each set of dies. The article mentions that the ANS does not have one, and this is still the case. I haven't checked any other references yet, but was just wondering what others thought on this. Show 'em if you got 'em!

TwoKopeiki

Yes, 54-MM crowns alike is still rare.

Boosibri

Yep, Yonaka is doing an update of his Mexican Pillar book to include 8 Reales so watch that space for an update to the rarity estimates

WCC

I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

JesseKraft

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

WCC

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

Will you be updating Mantis for all the pillar coinage? I understood from you that it does not reflect all of the ANS collection. I'm also still hoping that I can eventually get a work assignment to NYC once it's more feasible.

JesseKraft

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

Will you be updating Mantis for all the pillar coinage? I understood from you that it does not reflect all of the ANS collection. I'm also still hoping that I can eventually get a work assignment to NYC once it's more feasible.

Eventually. My goal is to have everything up, imaged, and referenced on Mantis (for what I'm accountable for, anyway. The Western Hemisphere). How long that will take is beyond me. A couple of years, I imagine. Right now I'm going through unaccessioned material to see what we need and don't need before moving on to the core of the collection.

WCC

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

Will you be updating Mantis for all the pillar coinage? I understood from you that it does not reflect all of the ANS collection. I'm also still hoping that I can eventually get a work assignment to NYC once it's more feasible.

Eventually. My goal is to have everything up, imaged, and referenced on Mantis (for what I'm accountable for, anyway. The Western Hemisphere). How long that will take is beyond me. A couple of years, I imagine. Right now I'm going through unaccessioned material to see what we need and don't need before moving on to the core of the collection.

If you have the time, I would be interested in a future update and I think others would be as well. Might be some interesting coins out there that have been forgotten.

TwoKopeiki

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

Will you be updating Mantis for all the pillar coinage? I understood from you that it does not reflect all of the ANS collection. I'm also still hoping that I can eventually get a work assignment to NYC once it's more feasible.

Eventually. My goal is to have everything up, imaged, and referenced on Mantis (for what I'm accountable for, anyway. The Western Hemisphere). How long that will take is beyond me. A couple of years, I imagine. Right now I'm going through unaccessioned material to see what we need and don't need before moving on to the core of the collection.

If you have the time, I would be interested in a future update and I think others would be as well. Might be some interesting coins out there that have been forgotten.

Ditto!

JesseKraft

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

Will you be updating Mantis for all the pillar coinage? I understood from you that it does not reflect all of the ANS collection. I'm also still hoping that I can eventually get a work assignment to NYC once it's more feasible.

Eventually. My goal is to have everything up, imaged, and referenced on Mantis (for what I'm accountable for, anyway. The Western Hemisphere). How long that will take is beyond me. A couple of years, I imagine. Right now I'm going through unaccessioned material to see what we need and don't need before moving on to the core of the collection.

If you have the time, I would be interested in a future update and I think others would be as well. Might be some interesting coins out there that have been forgotten.

Will do! I'll update here periodically.
A tad later than pillars and portraits, but I recently came across a Mexican dollar that was confiscated from Jefferson Davis when he was arrested in 1865! It was just hanging out with the rest of them. Definitely lots of treasures to be found.

pruebas

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

Will you be updating Mantis for all the pillar coinage? I understood from you that it does not reflect all of the ANS collection. I'm also still hoping that I can eventually get a work assignment to NYC once it's more feasible.

Eventually. My goal is to have everything up, imaged, and referenced on Mantis (for what I'm accountable for, anyway. The Western Hemisphere). How long that will take is beyond me. A couple of years, I imagine. Right now I'm going through unaccessioned material to see what we need and don't need before moving on to the core of the collection.

If you have the time, I would be interested in a future update and I think others would be as well. Might be some interesting coins out there that have been forgotten.

Will do! I'll update here periodically.
A tad later than pillars and portraits, but I recently came across a Mexican dollar that was confiscated from Jefferson Davis when he was arrested in 1865! It was just hanging out with the rest of them. Definitely lots of treasures to be found.

@JesseKraft: To me, the unusual part is him having a "dollar" on his person (or even more than one), not the fact that it was a Mexican dollar. A dollar was quite a bit of money back then.

Riddell tells us that Mexican dollars, both real and fake, were plentiful in the South at that time, probably even after 1857. After all, wasn't that the original idea behind the New Orleans Mint?

JesseKraft

@pruebas said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:

@JesseKraft said:

@WCC said:
I'll be buying any updated edition. I hope it's a hard cover and follows the same format as the more recent ones.

I wouldn't consider 26 identified in that prior survey particularly scarce. Without looking at Gilboy, my recollection is that the mintages were usually around 1MM for each date. 26 is low for a Mexico 8R but not other pillars. Its the same number Yonaka identified for the 1772 Peru 4R which should be a much scarcer coin given the likely relative mintage and geographic distribution.

I agree that 26 isn't terribly rare, and more along the line of 'scarce,' especially if someone is just aiming for the four major varieties of that year. However, if you are collecting by die variety (which, I know, few people do for these coins), then it would be nearly impossible since there are 19 different die varieties that make up those 26 coins.

I too will be buying it. Looking forward to using it to go through the ANS collection.

Will you be updating Mantis for all the pillar coinage? I understood from you that it does not reflect all of the ANS collection. I'm also still hoping that I can eventually get a work assignment to NYC once it's more feasible.

Eventually. My goal is to have everything up, imaged, and referenced on Mantis (for what I'm accountable for, anyway. The Western Hemisphere). How long that will take is beyond me. A couple of years, I imagine. Right now I'm going through unaccessioned material to see what we need and don't need before moving on to the core of the collection.

If you have the time, I would be interested in a future update and I think others would be as well. Might be some interesting coins out there that have been forgotten.

Will do! I'll update here periodically.
A tad later than pillars and portraits, but I recently came across a Mexican dollar that was confiscated from Jefferson Davis when he was arrested in 1865! It was just hanging out with the rest of them. Definitely lots of treasures to be found.

@JesseKraft: To me, the unusual part is him having a "dollar" on his person (or even more than one), not the fact that it was a Mexican dollar. A dollar was quite a bit of money back then.

Riddell tells us that Mexican dollars, both real and fake, were plentiful in the South at that time, probably even after 1857. After all, wasn't that the original idea behind the New Orleans Mint?

Indeed it was a lot of money! They circulated in the West even longer, until the 1890s (up until WWI?), hence the existence of pieces like this 1874 8 reales that has a US dime and half dime riveted to it to raise its value back up to a dollar when it had dropped to 85¢!

American Numismatic Society, 1922.54.13

TwoKopeiki

@JesseKraft said:

Indeed it was a lot of money! They circulated in the West even longer, until the 1890s (up until WWI?), hence the existence of pieces like this 1874 8 reales that has a US dime and half dime riveted to it to raise its value back up to a dollar when it had dropped to 85¢!