Why did this Birch Cent Electrotype sell for this high?

coinsarefun · August 31, 2020 7:47AM

Just wondering id is something I missed.

Sonorandesertrat · August 31, 2020 7:57AM

The comment, regarding unusually smooth surfaces, is accurate. This electrotype does not have a prominent dot over the C in SCIENCE (yours, mine, and Lakesamman's do).

coinsarefun · August 31, 2020 8:06AM

I saw that but if you enlarge the image it’s rally pitted. Still leaps and bounds better than mine.

Sonorandesertrat · August 31, 2020 8:10AM

Here is the obverse of mine:

His is nicer than mine. I paid $1K. So, is his $12.8K nicer? Depends.

291fifth · August 31, 2020 8:11AM

$13,800 for a copy ... no thanks!

MrEureka · August 31, 2020 8:40AM

To quote the consignor:

“In 62 years of extensive show / auction travel, I’ve seen perhaps another 5-6 1792 Birch cent electros and, but for one other, all exhibited obvious signs of underlying and unattractive lead base.

And the sole other not exhibiting lead undertype, had a noticeably pebbly and slightly concave surface. This electrotype in my collection was by far the finest known with flat surfaces and not a trace of lead , with a delightful Hershey milk chocolate patina. Additionally, it was being offered at auction with an almost complete 1792 pattern set built over many decades so that drew all the right bidders. The other Wright quarter electro in the same auctioned 1792 offering also drew a 5 figure bid and that too was the finest electrotype I’d seen of that ex rare pattern.

Both patterns are essentially unaffordable and next to impossible to find at auction or privately even if the bidder had the money. So while I was pleased with the price realized on these two, I was not surprised. “

LanceNewmanOCC · August 31, 2020 2:09PM

@Sonorandesertrat said:
Here is the obverse of mine:
His is nicer than mine.

that is debatable.

coinsarefun · August 31, 2020 2:26PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@Sonorandesertrat said:
Here is the obverse of mine:
His is nicer than mine.

that is debatable.

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I was thinking that @Sonorandesertrat piece looks much nicer.

GoBust · August 31, 2020 2:55PM

I saw them in hand and thought they were pretty exceptional for being old copies.

Sonorandesertrat · August 31, 2020 2:59PM

There is no lead peeking through on mine, so perhaps my electrotype is the one mentioned above. Mine has been cared for (looks glossy). I like the cheek on mine better, but the obverse fields on the $13.8K piece look smoother. The sale worked out well for the consignor; had that piece appeared in another auction, the hammer price could easily have been $7-8K.

Lakesammman · August 31, 2020 3:09PM

I recall that sale and was surprised as well by the price - the best "fake" out there!

Maybe I can get this one plated ..........

LanceNewmanOCC · August 31, 2020 4:11PM

@Lakesammman said:
I recall that sale and was surprised as well by the price - the best "fake" out there!

apologies in advance for the side-step to this thread but do any of you know if there is a hammer price for the pcgs slabbed counterfeit bust dollar? says so on the label. only seen the image one time here on the forum or a link to it.

Sonorandesertrat · August 31, 2020 4:21PM

PCGS states that 7 electrotypes were made of an 1804 dollar in 1860. Another web site suggests a value of ca. $26-27K.

Zoins · August 31, 2020 4:30PM

This looks like a nice electrotype.

I'm a big fan of Alan Weinberg because of all his commentary which I don't see others do:

Alan V. Weinberg wrote:

From Maurice Gould's Boston estate. The finest Birch cent electrotype I've ever seen. The few others are pebbly, with uneven wavy surfaces. This is simply superb and, as I couldn't afford the genuine Birch cent, let alone the rare opportunity to acquire one, I acquired this. I was present at the Johns Hopkins / Garrett, Part IV auction wherein there was the Gem copper Birch cent and the unique white metal Birch cent from different dies. The first to Don Partrick and the second to Bill Anton at less than half the price of the copper example. Ever the clever bargainer, Bill confided in me right after the sale that he and Partrick divided up the Birch cents beforehand so as to save each other money. Obviously, Bill got way the better deal.

I'd love to make some. Has anyone here made any in addition to @ambro51?

amwldcoin · August 31, 2020 5:47PM

Hmmm, what do you guys thing a PQ Massachusetts 1/2 Cent electrotype is worth. Smooth with AU-Unc details. Those that have seen it made the comment they would love to see the host coin. The only giveaway is a very small chip on the edge where you can see the base metal. Fooled a bunch of us 25 years ago when I bought it!

coinsarefun · August 31, 2020 6:49PM

@amwldcoin said:
Hmmm, what do you guys thing a PQ Massachusetts 1/2 Cent electrotype is worth. Smooth with AU-Unc details. Those that have seen it made the comment they would love to see the host coin. The only giveaway is a very small chip on the edge where you can see the base metal. Fooled a bunch of us 25 years ago when I bought it!

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First of all make sure its an electro and not a struck counterfeit as they can be worth much more if super nice.
Otherwise PQ 1/2 cent you need to search auctions but, $175-$250

coinsarefun · August 31, 2020 6:52PM

Well, I guess I mine as well post mine too. This should account for the majority out there.
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amwldcoin · August 31, 2020 6:58PM

It's without a doubt an electro. Maybe I will try and dig it out of it's hiding place and post some pics....don't hold me to it as stuff like that has a way of eluding me as to where I put it!

@coinsarefun said:

@amwldcoin said:
Hmmm, what do you guys thing a PQ Massachusetts 1/2 Cent electrotype is worth. Smooth with AU-Unc details. Those that have seen it made the comment they would love to see the host coin. The only giveaway is a very small chip on the edge where you can see the base metal. Fooled a bunch of us 25 years ago when I bought it!

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First of all make sure its an electro and not a struck counterfeit as they can be worth much more if super nice.
Otherwise PQ 1/2 cent you need to search auctions but, $175-$250

coinsarefun · February 21, 2021 8:50PM

Old thread notice
I was able to get mine out and take a better image tonight. The older pic shows a lot of hot spots from the lighting. Since then I’ve learned how to take better pics. It still is pours but does have a fair amount of
gloss on both sides.
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BillJones · February 22, 2021 3:10AM

I have seen really well done electrotypes of high grade Chain Cents go for maybe $400, but nothing like this. As others have said, this is unaffordable and unobtainable for the vast majority of collectors. Still, I would rather not have one than have a copy, especially at this price.

Zoins · February 22, 2021 3:20AM

Alan V, Weinberg wrote:

From Maurice Gould's Boston estate. The finest Birch cent electrotype I've ever seen. The few others are pebbly, with uneven wavy surfaces. This is simply superb and, as I couldn't afford the genuine Birch cent, let alone the rare opportunity to acquire one, I acquired this. I was present at the Johns Hopkins / Garrett, Part IV auction wherein there was the Gem copper Birch cent and the unique white metal Birch cent from different dies. The first to Don Partrick and the second to Bill Anton at less than half the price of the copper example. Ever the clever bargainer, Bill confided in me right after the sale that he and Partrick divided up the Birch cents beforehand so as to save each other money. Obviously, Bill got way the better deal.

GoBust · February 22, 2021 9:45AM

Those early electrotypes are very cool artifacts. The Birch Cent and Wright quarter electrotypes that were "too expensive" by some commenters fit nicely within my early 1792 to 1839 pattern set. The copper Wright quarter was out of reach and I decided to copy Alan Weinberg and include some exceptional electrotypes in my set. In hand, I thought they were both beautiful and representative for the era.

Hopefully, the strong prices may add value perception to other strong example early electrotypes. No other way to find an example of Judd-12 for the set. It looks pretty decent next to the Judd-13 in my set.