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When is an error coin legal tender, and when is it not?

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited August 30, 2020 4:36PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Similar to how US bills need to have two serial numbers to be legal tender, what's the minimum amount of information necessary on a coin to be legal tender?

I imagine minimally a denomination and country are necessary, but I'm not exactly sure.

Comments

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2020 4:49PM

    Edit... Hmm, it needs to function in commerce. People need to recognize the intended denomination I would imagine. If it is a coin that can normally be used in vending machines and the machine can't recognize it within tolerances then...

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting question.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • emeraldATVemeraldATV Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a child camping in Lancaster County wondering thru large boulders, a cave was created.
    As I went in , I found a wallet with (cant remember exactly) a couple of 20's that were destroyed over time,.
    I took the wallet to the bank and the teller told me As long as I have a complete serial No. attached to the denomination
    I would be given that amount.
    Destroyed is the key word here, But as a child it was cool.
    Indiana Jones, eat your heart out.

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 3,832 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've never thought about it, but are coins actually "Legal Tender"?

  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keyman64 said:
    Edit... Hmm, it needs to function in commerce. People need to recognize the intended denomination I would imagine. If it is a coin that can normally be used in vending machines and the machine can't recognize it within tolerances then...

    But many coins don't circulate nor would they work in vending machines.

    Although when/if the baseball or basketball half dollars drop to close to face value I plan to flatten one down and see if it will work in the self checkout at the supermarket. >:)

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2020 7:59PM

    Section 102 of the Coinage Act of 1965 provides that “[a]ll coins and currencies of the United States… shall be legal tender for all debts, public and private, public charges, taxes, duties, and dues.” If it is recognizable as a U.S. coin (as opposed to nail or sanding disk paper) to the average merchant, it should be legal tender under the plain meaning of the Coinage Act. There is no case law specific to error coins I am aware of, but the question of when a coin loses its legal tender status have recognized that as long as a coin has only incurred natural abrasion and is recognizable as a U.S. coin, it is still legal tender. Those cases all predate the Coinage Act.

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @emeraldATV said:
    As a child camping in Lancaster County wondering thru large boulders, a cave was created.
    As I went in , I found a wallet with (cant remember exactly) a couple of 20's that were destroyed over time,.
    I took the wallet to the bank and the teller told me As long as I have a complete serial No. attached to the denomination
    I would be given that amount.
    Destroyed is the key word here, But as a child it was cool.
    Indiana Jones, eat your heart out.

    Banks require 51% of the bill in order to replace it, if I recall correctly.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins

    When is an error coin legal tender, and when is it not?

    since no coins that are errors are supposed to leave the mint, then none of them should be legal tender.

    exceptions would be errors within a predefined tolerance/designation etc. and then the "error" is too minor to matter.

    does this extend to rpm, ddo etc. i have never seen that language and therefore cannot comment. they do intentionally repunch, rehub etc. so the band is a little broader than may be obvious.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JBK said:

    @keyman64 said:
    Edit... Hmm, it needs to function in commerce. People need to recognize the intended denomination I would imagine. If it is a coin that can normally be used in vending machines and the machine can't recognize it within tolerances then...

    But many coins don't circulate nor would they work in vending machines.

    Although when/if the baseball or basketball half dollars drop to close to face value I plan to flatten one down and see if it will work in the self checkout at the supermarket. >:)

    Read this again. "If it is a coin that can normally be used in vending machines and the machine can't recognize it within tolerances then..."

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • JBKJBK Posts: 14,642 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keyman64 said:

    @JBK said:

    @keyman64 said:
    Edit... Hmm, it needs to function in commerce. People need to recognize the intended denomination I would imagine. If it is a coin that can normally be used in vending machines and the machine can't recognize it within tolerances then...

    But many coins don't circulate nor would they work in vending machines.

    Although when/if the baseball or basketball half dollars drop to close to face value I plan to flatten one down and see if it will work in the self checkout at the supermarket. >:)

    Read this again. "If it is a coin that can normally be used in vending machines and the machine can't recognize it within tolerances then..."

    Consider it re-read.

    Now what criteria do we use for non circulating legal tender and their errors?

    And why does a private vending machine get to determine what is legal tender? Most modern vending machines reject silver coins - are they no longer legal tender?

    One could argue that any coin that was delivered out of the mint for value is legal tender since face value was paid for it.

    Then there are coins struck on wrong or foreign planchets....they do not meet the criteria set forth in the authorizing legislation.

    Too many questions.....

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting question....@Zoins....
    And one I had never thought about.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's legal tender status only matters if it's worth more spent as face value than sold as a collectors item.

    So five. Five angels can dance on it.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,939 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any difference in the criteria for legal status for Mint produced errors within premium products, such as proof sets,commemorative's,ASE's etc.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very interesting question ... which I cannot answer.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe the initial question would have to be answered by a legal authority at the Treasury department. There are so many 'what ifs' that have been mentioned and even more that can be imagined. Size, shape, material, denomination - If all are recognizable as typical, then certainly they could be used. As conditions of those criteria change, then the vendor could logically refuse them. Legally, I have not seen a detailed definition. Cheers, RickO

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,301 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hope this is a hypothetical and rhetorical question. :D

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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