Has every nice coin been to CAC?
Pedzola
Posts: 1,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
How likely is it that coins on auction or dealer websites haven't been to CAC?
I got the advice at some point that nice gold coins have all been to CAC and its extremely unlikely to find one without a sticker already that would get one.
Is that true? What about ebay? I have to imagine that a lot of regular collectors and maybe some dealers dont send every coin to CAC.
My collecting area is 20th Century gold... the CAC sticker frequently doubles the price for coins I am looking at. I paid up for a couple of CAC coins lately. Wondering if its possible to find some gems and capture that value for myself.
Saw a $10 Indian recently on Heritage inventory that looked great, priced fairly, and it sold fast. I found myself wondering what was wrong with the coin since it didnt have a bean. $5k coin that would be $12k with a sticker.
Is it even possible that the coin hadn't already been to CAC? If I see something on Heritage or GC without a sticker I assume they didnt pass vs never sent.
Comments
While many “nice” coins have already been to CAC, certainly/obviously, nowhere near all of them have.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not even close.... and people who say that, simply have no idea of the incredible quantity of coins out there....nice ones....Such a statement is a demonstration of the wisdom of fools....Cheers, RickO
Every nice coin that circulates between dealers probably has been to CAC, but there are TONS of nice coins out there that are just sitting in people’s collections and those people may or may not even know (and probably don’t care) about CAC. I would only send a coin to CAC if I was planning to sell, and even then, who knows. Since I don’t have any plans to sell, mine may never make it there.
That statement pops up every now and then and I get the feeling some believe it.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Oh don’t you know they would love it if you believed it lol. Am I watching an episode of Fear City?
To answer op- Not by a long shot. Nor worried about it. When somebody tries “advise” me pay more for their material bc of sticker or whatever time for them take their pitch and leave.
I am sure some looking for coins they can CAC that stickered will try sell for more money like 2x or whatever from those supposedly willing pay more bc CAC. They will have to find that special buyer who will pay that. What you should wonder is why is the $12k Cac coin worth that vs the 5k non CAC you think is nice. For somebody with $12m spend on coins 12k probably Just small change. Or opportunity pickup get caced flip 4 more.
I would suggest buy a copy of the sheet (cdn) and research difference between CAC and non CAC bids get handle on pricing. Some issues /grades CAC premium in sheet a lot some not.
Some believe it and many know it, from personal observation and experience.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
LOL!
How likely is it that coins on auction or dealer websites haven't been to CAC?
The more expensive the coin, the less likely (it hasn't been sent). It's probably impossible to estimate with any degree of accuracy. Some dealers don't submit coins. Some collections at auction aren't sent because it would highlight the non-stickered coins. Etc.
Note that some posters are not answering the actual question posed.
Maybe I should revise the original question. How about nice gold coins MS64-66 that show up on a major coin dealer or auction company websites, excluding ebay?
Obviously tons of coins in collections havent been to CAC, but as one noted above " I would only send a coin to CAC if I was planning to sell," wouldnt any coin dealer advise clients to send to cac (or send on their own?) before they show up on the website?
Again I'm talking about coins that ~ double in value with a sticker. A dealer wouldnt leave money on the table like that, right?
Would be nice if CAC would provide a lookup for those that failed.
My Gold Type Set
Pfffft. Until it’s your coin that failed
I'm kind of happy with things in the coin business just as they are right now.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
To the thread title question: I've bought coins in the last couple years from auction houses that I sent into CAC and they beaned.
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Based on the revised question posted, (glad I read all the posts first), I have nothing to add, as I wouldn't know what the dealers and auction houses do with their coins. I would GUESS that most of them consider sending the better coins to CAC, if the value is there to do so.
As far as my personal collection, many of the type coins and large cents haven't even been to a TPG, much less CAC.
No.
Nope!
Absolutely NOT!
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The higher the price the more likely they’ve seen it. As for percentage, who knows? Probably no one.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
This is the only one I have out of 250 or so slabs and it came with one. I'm not a fan of stickers.
I dont send 98% of the coins I get back from the grading service that go to ebay to cac, not cost effective for me. Now coins that count, probably be a good idea.
Great question for those of us who are plain collectors. I always assume any dealer or auction coin has been submitted because why not? It’s cheap and adds to the value. As a collector I highly value CAC because he is MUCH more of an expert than I will ever be. I also realize there are millions of coins so no way a high % can logically be looked at by one man.
CFA, LSU AND ANA
Plenty of collectors and dealers do not send to CAC so I would say definitely not and FAR from it. SimcoCoins.com even proudly states that they do not send coins to CAC.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
No there are dealers and collectors that do not send many or any coins to CAC, over time the number of nice coins not yet seen is shrinking but certainly not to zero.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
If a coin is high value, say over $1000, and the coin appears to be a good candidate to CAC, I would say it would be a significant disservice to the consignor if a major auction company did not to send the coin to CAC.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Absolutely not.
Can you look up a PCGS number on CAC's website that lets you know whether a coin has been rejected?
no
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Yes, 3 maybe 4 times each for the non-dreck.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
For me the criteria would be big ticket coin and CAC bid in sheet quite a bit over its bid. If coin a is bid $500 / CPG $650 and $650 CAC bid / CPG on it $850 then I can see somebody sending it to CAC to get the possibility of more $. These are separate inventory classes - I reject the idea non CAC coins have the mark of Cain. One can draw their own conclusions viewing coins on the bourse. But for little difference like MS64 generic dollar Nada.
I run them through NJ before selling.
Predicting JA is like playing darts on a roller coaster.
My Saint Set
If a classic gold coin is for sale (so it is not in an old time collection) it is very likely it has been to CAC. Once in awhile it may not happen for instance if the coin arrives late to the auction house. However, presently i think it is the exception that a gold coin for sale has not been to cac if the owner believes it has a chance to sticker.
I don’t have enough turnover to justify the time/expense of a collector’s membership to CAC so none of my coins have made it there unless I bought it already stickered. I do wonder, though, how many of mine would sticker. Of course I don’t deal in 5 digit or higher coins so I guess some would say the value differential is somewhat dubious.
TurtleCat Gold Dollars
For you, perhaps, based on your posts about your Saints.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
No
My father has a liberty safe full of OGH, rattlers, no line fatty's, etc that he's had since the introduction of those slabs. He was born in '38 and has collected since he was a kid. They have never been to CAC. They exist and are out there.
Has every attractive person applied to the Ford model agency?
Has every good singer been on Star Search?
Has every fast car raced at Daytona?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Ford Modeling is hiring? Have a contact number?
.> @Baley said:
And just to complete the circle, has every Ford model raced at Daytona?
I really can't believe some of the questions that get posed as if they were cemented in truth....
Many people don't apply to CAC to be able to submit on their own. Many areas don't have dealers who can/will submit to CAC for people....and MANY of the people even in areas that have a dealer that would buy online and don't deal with those dealers (for various reasons).
So, without an "easy" way to submit to CAC, why/how would they?
Oh, then we get to the auction houses....sure, many will submit to CAC, or at least suggest it, but what about when the sellers want the coins to be sold as soon as possible (and may not get to the auction house until last minute)?
Many on here don't believe in CAC, from many of the threads, right? So why would THEY push for their coins to get CACed, unless they are kind of hypocritical and really do believe the sticker has value...but they just didn't want to admit it....?
There are still raw coins out there and a new owner may get them slabbed but, for above reasons, not try to get them stickered.
There are just too many variables to ever believe that "CAC has seen all nice coins".
I will agree that CAC has probably seen a good number of nice (and not so nice, I am sure) coins, and it is smart of many sellers to go that path, particularly the more the coin is worth and in certain fields (such as gold).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Ha. There are a TON (actually several tons) of really nice coins that haven’t ever been to a TPG. Obviously none of those has been seen by CAC.
The more expensive the coin the more likely it’s been to CAC. There are some dealers who send every coin to CAC prior to selling. I can’t speak for HA but SB encourages consigners to send every higher priced coin to CAC and the same with GC. There are some consigners, especially if it’s a inheritance, who don’t want to spend the extra money and some who feel it’s a waste of money.
BOOM !! Right there. That is an assumption that runs .... W I D E..... in the hobby. And the reason I demand EVERY coin over a certain value to wear a sticker.
Put it this way. If an expensive coin has not been to CAC and someone has a good eye, they can pruchase these coins when they are for sale and that person will make a boatload of money (if they accurately identify cac caliber coins that have yet to be reviewed) by reselling the coin with the sticker.
This fact alone tells you most expensive coins that are up for sale have been to CAC since coin sellers are not in the business of leaving money on the table.
Should I send to CAC?
No
Only if you want to.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Not really. It wouldn't add anything to it.
Another reason most coins go to cac when they are selling now is that due to the pandemic it is harder and harder to see coins first hand. The extra set of eyes that CAC approval signifies help bidders who cant see the coin first hand. I think it is safe to assume that CAC coins attract more bidders (ie individuals building cac only collections, collectors who cant see the coin first hand, etc)
No
Just went 6/8 this week
Then why did you ask?