Has anyone received the wrong coin back from PCGS?
JCM1967
Posts: 4 ✭
At the July 2020 Las Vegas show, I submitted a 1893-S $20 Liberty for grading. To my surprise I received back a 1894-S $20 Liberty. Since I only had one 1893-S and one 1894-S (which I did not submit- was cleaned) I know it was not my mistake. When I brought my concerns to PCGS, they denied their mistake, but could not explain why now I have two 1894-S $20 Liberties and do not have the 1893-S. Has anyone else had problem with getting a different coin returned from PCGS? Very frustrating and I guess I will never get this coin back.
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Never the wrong coin but I have received other person's paperwork in addition to mine
No. Never heard of it until now.
Do you have photos of your 93-S double eagle? Was it submitted raw, as a cross, or regrade?
Who did you talk to at PCGS? When? At the show? If not, how much later?
Lance.
I would think if you received the wrong coin back, somewhere there is someone else who also didn't get the right coin back and they would be complaining also......
HAPPY COLLECTING
My very first submission with them ever back in 2005 or so, they mistakenly mailed me another guys submission and sent mine to him. I was so shocked, his lot was about 4 double eagles and a couple high end Morgans. Mine was a bunch of random proof set toned coins worth next to nothing compared to his.
PCGS was apologetic, put us in touch with each other, we talked over the phone and mailed each other the correct orders.
They paid for shipping and mailed me a voucher for another 5 free submissions for my troubles if I remember right.
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Do you have your paperwork showing you submitted an 1893 S?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Lance,
Unfortunately, I do not have pictures of the coin- but I do have the third party evaluation completed when we inherited the collection. Only had one 1893-S $20 and one 1894-S $20 (and one 1894-P). This was my third submission to PCGS and I trusted them, so I thought pictures were unnecessary and I have learned form that mistake. The coin was submitted raw, and I let PCGS (JoAnne at the show) know right away about the mistake when I picked it up. PCGS Customer Service is terrible, and it will take a long post to detail my attempts to contact them and lack of responses. I will say that Stephanie (CS manager) took a long time to get back to me (I had to email CEO and CFO to get her to respond).
Coins Makes Sense,
According to Stephanie, there was only one 1893-S $20 submitted at the LV show, and he received his coin. PCGS states the coin I received is the one I submitted, even though it is not a possibility.
The official answer is a resounding "No!"
WOW!
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considering that PCGS has graded something like 40 million coins I guess it's reasonable to expect this to happen. I don't hold your opinion of their Customer Service, I think they do a fine job, so I'd try to stay calm and keep working with them. it might be best to communicate as much as possible via e-mail where you can check yourself and not go off half-cocked. being on the phone, if you lose yourself momentarily it could screw up the whole thing: you can't un-ring the bell.
please keep us informed even if it turns out that you had something to do with the foul-up. this could be an interesting "lesson thread" for everyone.
I recommend you post a photo of your submission form showing that you submitted an 1893-S.
What difference would that make? Even if that date was listed, there’s no guarantee it was the date submitted - possibly/probably? Yes. Definitely? No.
The OP feels certain he submitted one date and PCGS feels certain he submitted a different one.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If the date he submitted on form was different than the date on the coin, pcgs should probably have contacted him before proceeding any further to try and resolve the issue.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
IF they caught the error, sure.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
whenever I submit anything to PCGS I have a routine: I get updates from the USPS so I know when PCGS has my order(s), then I check my "account page" religiously until everything posts with dates, denomination, etc, which should match my copy of the submission form.
that would have been the point when the OP could have known something was wrong.
I think the only way I could go from mailing a submission to getting it returned to me without ever checking would be if I was in a coma, on a desert island or dead. but that's just me.
Amazingly enough, several years ago I received someone else's order in addition to mine. I can't remember exactly what was in the order other than a nice mid-grade Bust dollar and a few other nice coins. I contacted PCGS and they were so grateful they awarded me five free grading vouchers. I didn't have any more coins to submit at the time and put the vouchers in a drawer. Over a year later, I was ready to submit coins and dug up the vouchers. Unfortunately, they had expired by then! I guess virtue was its own reward...
No I have not received the wrong coins but I have certainly received the wrong grades!
Which coin is better? The one you sent in or the one you received back?
I have sent in coins for crossover and they came back as "something else".
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In terms of price, they don't differ grade to grade. But if the return 94-S was of a lower grade than the one you sent it, then its gotta hurt. These things are going to happen from time to time. It is never fun to be the one it happens to. But if you have paper documentation of the evaluation for the 93-s as you note, that might be a starting point of discussion with them. Next time maybe get a quick pic from your phone as you submit.
Best, SH
U1 and SH,
The grading for the 1894-S I received back was an AU58. I thought the 1893-S was at least a MS60, and could have been better (Since I am new to this, I could be wrong). According to the PCGS price guide, the MS63 and higher grades are worth a lot more for the 1893-S than the 1894-S, which really adds to my suspicions why I received a different coin back.
Keets,
I have tried to work with PCGS, and it was very difficult. When I first let them know of the mistake on 7/18, the PCGS CS manager did not contact me until 7/29. She was dismissive and just kept repeating I have the coin submitted and was not interested in my documentation. After the long back and forth (mainly due to their response time), PCGS offered an one time payment for the coin I submitted (at the value I stated on my submission sheet). (FYI- I would return the 1894-S to them and would receive a check in 4-6 weeks) Since it was my only 1893-S, I rejected the offer and reaffirmed I wanted my original coin returned (and I would return the 1894-S). Also, since gold prices were going up so fast, their offer was less than than the current spot value. This has been very frustrating, especially to someone new to this hobby.
You were doing OK until you (at least) intimated that PCGS switched coins on you for financial gain.
First, they wouldn’t risk their reputation by doing such a thing. Second, talking like that will possibly/probably get you banned.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
First, they wouldn’t risk their reputation by doing such a thing.
this is the line of thinking I have had since I first opened this thread: there is nothing but "downside" for PCGS to run from a problem like this. typically, any large corporation will settle first and thoroughly investigate later, it is just bad PR for them to squabble over something as small as this, good PR for them to settle up and move on.
I have considered from the start that this may be an over-sight on the part of the OP, insistent as he may be that he KNOWS he sent them one coin and got back something different. PCGS runs a pretty tight ship, they check everything over closely when it arrives, I for one would like to see a copy posted in this thread of the original submission form. a suggestion for the OP: post a copy of the submission form --- and --- go into your account and make this single submission public so it can be seen in this thread.
I, for one, want to believe you but right now see some reasonable doubt.
No. I’m sure it has happened by accident though given the millions of coins submitted. You’re understandably frustrated, but I don’t think venting about the situation here is going to help much.
You should have your copy of the submission form as well as the copy they returned to you with the coin. If you post both of those, along with a photo of the slab, that may provide some insight.
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If PCGS didn't catch the error upon receipt of the coins and subsequent initial entry into their system, then they have created a tricky situation for themselves. The coin received back by the submitter would not match the coin listed on the submission form, and it seems to me the submitter might have a legitimate beef.
For what it's worth, I have submitted a coin I thought was a 2019-W quarter but it was a 2019-P. Totally my mistake and PCGS caught the error, entered it as a P during the submission process, graded my other coins in the submission and returned them all to me. The 2019-P was not slabbed but was returned to me.
Regarding this issue with the OP what is confusing to me is that another customer should have received the OP's coin in error and then notified PCGS. 🤔
Unless the other party was submitting a huge pile of generic gold. If so, they probably wouldn’t even notice.
And such a submission would be unlikely at that venue.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And such a submission would be unlikely at that venue.
and again, Mark makes a good point. it would be relatively easy for PCGS to check every submission at the Las Vegas show to see if there was another same date/mm/denomination submitted, something they apparently did already. absent the OP doing certain things to prove his case(to us, since he brought it to our attention) it is logical to assume he made an error, has quite possibly realized it now and will be absent from the forum after three posts. that's sad, because it seems from those posts that he could benefit from this site.
here is what I know from every submission I have made to PCGS:
--- whenever I make a mistake I receive an e-mail and my order stops until I contact PCGS to rectify it.
--- that includes failing to sign the form, entering the wrong coin information or having conflicting service choices.
--- when my order(s) are entered into the system they ALWAYS match my copy of the form or reflect the changes made via CS.
--- when my order returns, there is a copy of the original form with items checked off and a Packing Slip included. everything matches.
if the OP would show us copies of that stuff it would be clear where the mistake was made.
I agree with @keets... Al makes a clear case available to the OP for us to help. @JCM1967... Welcome aboard, please listen objectively to those who have posted above.... Post the submission forms... Members will help to the extent possible. Cheers, RickO
I think they record the opening of submissions received, so when they say no it didn't happen I tend to agree with them..
Keets,
I understand the reasonable thought I made a mistake since PCGS has a good reputation (that is why I decided to use them), but I am 100% positive I submitted the 1893-S $20 (I keep track of all of my coins with an assigned inventory number on a spreadsheet). My first thought after alerting PCGS at the show of the different coin was maybe I made a mistake and accidently brought my only 1894-S, but I confirmed I was correct when I checked my inventory in the safety deposit box. I have attached my submission form and invoice if you want to take a look, but really at this point there is really nothing I can do about getting my original coin back.
If you do look at the attachments, you will see a mistake I did on line 13. My 1908 $20 (9147) I submitted came back as a 1908 $20 No Motto (9142). This was my mistake (didn't know there were two versions in 1908) and PCGS did catch this. I also made a couple of mistakes on my first submission last year, missed two mint marks (just inherited the coins- was a rookie mistake). I know it does not help my argument, but still does not change the fact I am missing the 1893-S.
Going back to my original question if anyone received a different coin back, looks like so far this was a unique situation (besides some obvious clerical errors). Not sure what happened (still not happy with PCGS customer service), but I am very disappointed in losing my only 1893-S $20 coin.
Those are interesting forms. You list that you sent a 93-S and list the coin number for it. And you list coins in a chronological order also. They show they returned a 94-S and the appropriate coin number that goes with it. The price guide shows similar value so no incentive for doing a swap. I am just surprised that PCGS did not notify you right away when they realized there was a discrepancy between your list and theirs. My understanding is that they keep all submissions together as a group and find it almost impossible for a coin to be swapped between groups. I hope you get this figured out.
just looking at those forms it seems to me that you sent the wrong coin and PCGS ID'd that upon doing the inventory and entering into their system. to my mind, Occam's Razor applies.
That is strange. It seems there are several steps in the process where someone at PCGS would notice if the coin does not match the original submission form. See this video. The video doesn't show what they do in such a case. But one would expect at least some kind of note in the system acknowledging a discrepancy.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album