What does it take for a coin to CAC?
lsica
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Hello Group
What does it take for a coin to CAC? Will some nice color do it or does it have to REALLY pop?
Philately will get you nowhere....
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It takes CAC’s opinion that the coin is solid for the grade or better. Color need not have anything to do with it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
In other words, John Albanese has to like your coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Believe it or not, John doesn’t make the assessments unilaterally.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
???
Color is not the factor like it seems to be for the TPGS, the coin has to standout, the you know it when you see it factor.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Most of the CAC approved coins I have seen have great appeal...there are others that are head scratchers...and there are others that CAC does not bean which are mind-boggling as well.
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I think the answer is coin specific.
My recommendation is to ask about a particular type and hopefully an expert will respond.
My Saint Set
I've seen some CAC coins that I definitely wouldn't buy. I'm sure the grade was accurate, but they looked dirty.
What does it take for a coin to CAC?
some say that Planetary Alignment is important or that the day, time, season and submitter matter, but I don't subscribe to that. the main thing that matters is the grade assigned to the coin by PCGS and NGC. without that reference point the color of the sticker or the even if a sticker is awarded can't be determined, it is a crap-shoot.
A/B for grade
Surface quality
Surface manipulation
Above is my opinion only.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Strong eye appeal is important. IMO.
Jim. This seems counter to some coins being stickered that have poor eye appeal and the opposite occurring as well (assuming other factors pass muster).
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Solid for the grade or maybe a little better will do the trick.
While all of my coins eligible for a CAC have one, I fully agree 110% with @Rob9874. As I hunt for coins, I can’t even count how many CAC’d coins I pass on that are the grade I’m looking for. While admittedly what I like in eye appeal is very different from that of many collectors, my bottom line is I have to like the eye appeal of a coin for me to pull the trigger.
Separately, although many comments above refer to a coin having to be solid for the grade to get a CAC, and this is true, a separate factor the OP should be aware of is that the surfaces must not have been “messed with”. This is particularly true for gold. To me, this is just as important as the confidence CAC provides that the coin is solid for the grade. That’s the reason one sees many eye appealing coins that are solid for the grade, but don’t merit a CAC.
A final point tied to the above paragraph is that a CAC’d coin having surfaces that are not “messed with” does NOT mean that the coin hasn’t been dipped. Many of my CAC’d coins, typically 20th Century silver, have indeed been dipped, and are blast white, or close to it, but were dipped gently enough that the luster is still phenomenal, and they merit CAC’s too.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
CAC is just another 'grading' company that uses a standard that it refuses to share.
So no one can say for sure what it takes to get a green, or gold sticker.
What does “messed with” mean if lightly dipped is OK, but there’s something done that is noticeable yet the coin still warrants a straight grade.
Is it just overdipping? Are there other things I’m not thinking of?
Please keep in mind that CAC has the incredibly valuable property of time on their side. What I mean is that coins that are certified by PCGS or NGC may, over time, turn in the holder and/or their appearance may at a later date be viewed as artificially manipulated whereas at the time of certification there was no consensus that the coin was manipulated.
Therefore, coins with putty on their surfaces (oftentimes AU and higher gold) would, on occasion, slip through the TPGs into a holder and later (with time) the putty would turn and become visible if you know what you are looking for. Whereas PCGS and NGC saw the coin "fresh" and the putty near invisible, CAC might see the coin five, ten or twenty-years after being holdered and the putty might be obvious if you know what the residue looks like. CAC would reject this coin in this circumstance, but they had more information than PCGS or NGC.
Similarly, treatment with bleach or iodine has been used in the past to get a coin into a higher graded holder and these coins have a tendency to either turn or to have a distinctive look to them that is now associated with a manipulated surface. At the time of certification the treatment may have been invisible or accepted, but now these might be deemed problem coins. This is similar to improperly rinsing a coin after a dip. PCGS, NGC and CAC all accept dipped coinage, but a coin that has dip residue on it will turn color and/or etch with time. CAC might see the coin years later and reject it. Also, many methods of AT have been developed and some colors and patterns that were initially certified by the TPGs are now considered manipulated and CAC can reject those, as well, many years after certification.
On a slightly different note, CAC does not hold to the same standards as the TPGs and, in fact, neither PCGS nor NGC have identical standards. Therefore, we are all dealing with three independent and fluid grading standards that can shift what might be acceptable (wispy hairlines vs. wiped) and what might not be acceptable.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@TomB
Thanks.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
For him to be in good mood and on a Friday afternoon lol.
Honestly, there might be some truth to the first part of this!
Oh goody, another 200 posts of rehash!
Smitten with DBLCs.
JA likes Caymus wine and Balvenie single malt scotch.
Great info @TomB. Very helpful.
Poof! 😜😜
It doesn't need to be special. It merely needs to be a solid for the TPG holder grade per CAC's in-house standards. There are are some hideous coins that are stickered because they are solid for the grade. CAC is justified in stickering them based on its announced standards and policy. There are also many stunners that sticker. It cuts both ways.
CAC stickers coins that they would be willing to make a fair/reasonable offer for in the assigned grades. That's it.
@TomB... Thank you for an excellent summation of information regarding the initial question. I never saw the 'mystery' about CAC that many seem to attribute to their decisions. Quite clear actually in their statement. Solid for the grade or better. Remember, we are still dealing with opinions here. Cheers, RickO