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PCGS LAUNCHES AI-POWERED COIN GRADING TECHNOLOGY

1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

@ricko et al, if this was posted here before, I apologize, I just stumbled upon this.
Coin Grading Giant Partners with Positronic to Develop Machine Learning Tool

PCGS Gold Shield highlights questionable “keypoints” harvested from their vast proprietary imaging database.
.

Earlier this year, Professional Coin Grading Service rolled out PCGS Gold Shield™ Service utilizing new coin grading technology developed in partnership with Positronic. Coin grading is the process of determining the grade or condition of a coin in order to determine its value. PCGS is one of the top coin grading services in the United States, providing the standard for coin authenticity.

PCGS graders have long been considered the best in the business - setting the bar for finding counterfeits and consistently grading coins with accuracy. Since 1986, they have graded more than 37 million coins. As they looked to serve their customers with a higher degree of accuracy and a quicker turnaround on coin grades, their team knew that upgraded machine learning technology and artificial intelligence would be key.

In partnering with Positronic, PCGS has been able to decrease the amount of time it takes to grade coins while increasing accuracy of their grading. The new system Their new system benefits from artificial intelligence and machine learning, allowing coin graders to quickly determine coin authenticity by checking coins against their vast proprietary imaging database.

“We have been testing and refining the system for over two years and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. It will become a crucial component of our fight against counterfeiting, " shared Don Willis, President of PCGS

John Nelson, PCGS’ Chief Technology Officer, shared: “With coins going through PCGS Gold Shield, our system is even more intelligent, and faster than before. It speeds the grading and authentication process.”

Positronic specializes in making businesses perform better and faster through strategic implementation of technology. Is there an area of your business that you need to up your game to stay competitive? Contact us to explore solutions.

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Comments

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow ... it's hard for me to get my head around just how far grading has come.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 44,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How old is that press release?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AI recognition of certain patterns will be really helpful in the fight against counterfeits too.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,733 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2020 12:47PM
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I found the article through a Google search. It was dated Sept. 13, 2018.

  • chesterbchesterb Posts: 961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They have been doing this in certain radiology studies for a long time. It makes sense to adapt it for the coin industry. It would make finding counterfeits easier too.

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Without more insight into how it is actually used, it doesn’t mean a whole lot.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If they are using it in a test mode I'd like to know how the machine compares to the human. What is the percentage of matching grades and who was the leader?


  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I knew it was being investigated....and it is the future of coin grading/authentication. I am not surprised it is two years down the road already and still a long way to go. The programming etc. is a major task. Cheers, RickO

  • Glad to see this. I use gold shield a lot.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2020 3:47PM

    I just found it and thought others might like to read it :)
    If you knew about it I apologize.

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  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Don Willis - name sounds familiar .......... as does the technology.


    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    Don Willis - name sounds familiar .......... as does the technology.


    Coin bingo

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,595 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a paint-by-numbers guide for a new US mint product.

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Who's Al?

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mannie gray said:
    Who's Al?

    The guy who invented the internet.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Artificial Intelligence / Machine Learning

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  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    Don Willis - name sounds familiar .......... as does the technology.


    What the heck does all that stuff mean? :o

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 44,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mannie gray said:
    Who's Al?

    Assuming that you may be serious, AI is Artificial Intelligence.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 44,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Since eye appeal is a grading factor, how does the computer evaluate the coins eye appeal?
    I remember back a couple decades ago PCGS invested a lot of money and effort in developing a system of computer grading that went no where and they eventually cut their loses and gave up on it.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    how does the computer evaluate the coins eye appeal?
    .
    Someday, the "definition" of eye appeal described in the below video will be codified.
    Think how many million/billion lines of code get processed every time you start your car.
    .
    https://youtu.be/1UcNbPbu9u8

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  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1630Boston said:

    @PerryHall said:

    how does the computer evaluate the coins eye appeal?
    .

    I'm of the opinion that a grading system that is 100% consistent and reliable that imperfectly captures eye appeal is preferential to a system that is less consistent that captures eye appeal better. I would even be open to dropping the term eye appeal all-together and just referring to things like brightness, reflectivity, breaks in luster and things like that.

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  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Who's Al?

    I am he!! here is my uninformed thought on this.

    I wouldn't expect that this system, if it's in place at PCGS, is used to grade coins in lieu of a grading team. more than likely it's used to find counterfiets and to provide a baseline analysis of a coin's grade to speed up the grading room. I would expect that all the information the system provides plus the actual grade assigned by PCGS is compared.

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    I wouldn't expect that this system, if it's in place at PCGS, is used to grade coins in lieu of a grading team. more than likely it's used to find counterfiets and to provide a baseline analysis of a coin's grade to speed up the grading room. I would expect that all the information the system provides plus the actual grade assigned by PCGS is compared.

    There are grade limiting factors relating to size of marks and location of marks. You could hypothetically create something that counts that type of stuff and measures the relative size of marks to set some grade boundaries.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    just so there's no mis-understanding, I don't think anything but humans is actually grading our coins.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2020 8:05AM

    :D It is not AL **it is **Ai

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  • logger7logger7 Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can see it for screening coins but not final grading; some AI system is or should be in use for huge numbers of moderns for obvious reasons with a finalizer making sure results were accurate.

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,592 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2020 8:16AM

    Nice link.

    Thank you ... now I know ( AI )

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,572 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool. AI, meet AT and AU

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,243 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Lakesammman said:
    Don Willis - name sounds familiar .......... as does the technology.


    This image reminds me of that medical mock up example of a human head that defines all the areas of the human brain. That denotes what each part of the brains functions is.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Since eye appeal is a grading factor, how does the computer evaluate the coins eye appeal?
    I remember back a couple decades ago PCGS invested a lot of money and effort in developing a system of computer grading that went no where and they eventually cut their loses and gave up on it.

    I have long believed there was merit in bringing some objectivity to grading. AI has the potential to do this, presumably more than when PCGS contemplated it years ago (what do I know? I'm a Liberal Arts major). Garbage in/garbage out, and obviously there is the issue of input and training for AI, but stability is the desired outcome, along with the banishment of grade inflation.

    Yes, there's no way to convincingly substitute for something as subjective as eye appeal. And if people still need a human eye to tag on some endorsement of eye appeal to an individual coin, than so be it.

    But as far as objective standards for what grade corresponds to wear, marks, cuts, cameo contrast etc. etc., IMHO bring it on.

  • KudbegudKudbegud Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd like to see a grade off like a boxing match. Different coin each round with a human PCGS finalizer grading pro as the referee. Id'd watch that.


  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,340 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jimnight said:
    Wow ... it's hard for me to get my head around just how far grading has come.

    Open the pod bay doors, Hal.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    @dpoole said:

    @PerryHall said:
    Since eye appeal is a grading factor, how does the computer evaluate the coins eye appeal?
    I remember back a couple decades ago PCGS invested a lot of money and effort in developing a system of computer grading that went no where and they eventually cut their loses and gave up on it.

    I have long believed there was merit in bringing some objectivity to grading. AI has the potential to do this, presumably more than when PCGS contemplated it years ago (what do I know? I'm a Liberal Arts major). Garbage in/garbage out, and obviously there is the issue of input and training for AI, but stability is the desired outcome, along with the banishment of grade inflation.

    Yes, there's no way to convincingly substitute for something as subjective as eye appeal. And if people still need a human eye to tag on some endorsement of eye appeal to an individual coin, than so be it.

    But as far as objective standards for what grade corresponds to wear, marks, cuts, cameo contrast etc. etc., IMHO bring it on.

    Great points. There may be a role for the AI bot on the grading side as well, since technology has advanced so much in the last 20 years. To make an analogy to another realm, there was recently a team that created a poker playing AI bot that essentially now plays "perfect" limit Texas hold 'em vs. one other player. They did this by using a "regret minimization" algorithm and letting it play billions of hands. At first it lost tons of (fake) money, but kept adapting to minimize its regret for each play until it basically played perfectly.

    Not saying a bot could ever take over the grading duties entirely but once it learns enough maybe it could do initial grading that's reviewed by humans to ensure accuracy?

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  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :)

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  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so many topics on this forum !!!

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Alert - 2 year old thread.

    Looks like the technology was used to streamline image processing as per the positronic website:

    https://positronic.ai/case-studies/coin-process-automation/

    I see no reference that the technology is being used currently for grading purposes. FYI.

    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those compute times are longer than I would have expected. However, 6 minutes of processor time is still way cheaper than 6 minutes of people time and you can buy more processers for fairly cheap.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

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