Swinging on 3 and 0 with a large lead
thisistheshow
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in Sports Talk
I know there are previous threads here discussing unwritten sports rules, particularly in baseball, but to bring it up again..... I happen to live in Texas Rangers country, so this is a hot topic on the radio this morning.
Any opinions?
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With all the scoring in today's game, is any lead safe?
I have been around long enough to have seen and to know that no lead in any Sport is really safe. my two suggestions to Manager Woodward, maybe you should write down the "unwritten rules" so they can be enforced and maybe you can tell your Pitchers not to groove 3-0 fastballs to hot hitters.
Eh if it’s not a written rule then it’s not a rule
rules were made to be broken
If my team is up 7-0 in the 9th my pitcher is required to throw like its BP only fair
It's hard for me to even wrap my head around this being an "issue". 19 years ago, Seattle lost a game they 14-2 in the 7th.
Don't want guys swinging on 3-0 when they're up big with the bases loaded? Pro Tip: Don't let them get to 3-0, up big with the bases loaded.
you play hard for 9 innings. to let up is insulting to your opponent.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Put yourself in the batter's shoes. Yes, i enjoy playing the game, but it's a job and it's a living, and if i can hit a grand slam and it can make me and my family more money come contract time with better stats, then i'm going to do it.
I'm not saying disobey a coach's signal, etc, but if i have a green light to do what i want and the pitcher grooves a fastball, then i'm swinging without hesitation.
The fatter your stat line the more leverage at contract time.
I remember a game in San Diego in 1974. The Pirates were up 8-0 after 7 1/2 innings, and the Padres only had 5 hits. The Padres scored 4 runs in the 8th, and 5 more in the 9th to win 9-8!
Steve
all of these asinine unwritten rules in baseball is yet another reason why the sport is circling the drain
Tatis, Jr was signed to pound on a baseball -- regardless of the score. yet according to the Rangers' manager he supposedly violated a code of conduct?
i guarantee you if someone threw at me for doing my job i'd charge the mound like a bull and smash the pitcher in the exact spot he hit me........with my bat. i'd get fined......and suspended......but i promise i'd never be punished for doing what i'm paid to do again
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Let’s not forget that these unwritten rules when broken add to the crying that is already widespread amongst these spoiled brats.
Just saw these two tweets:
[Johnny Bench] So you take a pitch...now you're 3-1. Then the pitcher comes back with a great setup pitch...3-2. Now you're ready to groundout into a double play. Everyone should hit 3-0. Grand Slams are a huge stat.
[Reggie Jackson] Fernando Tatis keep playing hard and playing great, it’s a pleasure to watch you play, love your success and the Padres rise to be a winner. Keep leading the way. It ain’t easy to hit Hrs. Keep bringing energy you have to the game, we need players like you. An All Star.
Steve
Texas threw at the next guy after the grand slam. The Padres made Tatis get up and APOLOGIZE for hitting the grand slam after the game.
And, oh yeah - that Rangers manager? The one griping about swinging on 3-0 with a big lead? Yeah, when he was on the Dodgers, he congratulated Manny Machado for doing the exact same thing.
I can understand both sides, but lean toward the "stay competitive until it's over" philosophy. I've seen too many comebacks in major sports(MANY in baseball)to believe any lead is safe and others in the thread have stated. Considering Tatis Jr probably knew he was chasing this:
...and would get a special card the next day courtesy of our friends at Topps, explains why he disregarded the take sign(which I personally think needs to go away and should have long ago)!
I remember this one. On August 25, 1980, during a Dodgers-Phillies game, Dodger catcher Joe Ferguson was at the plate in the 9th. inning with runners on second and third. Tug McGraw was on the mound. The Dodgers were leading 6-4. McGraw was intentionally walking Ferguson. But......Ferguson reached out and hit a 2 run single off a pitch that was way outside the strike zone. McGraw beaned the next batter. A bench clearing brawl ensued. The Dodgers won the game 6-4.
I don't understand.
I haven't done any followup on this, so I didn't know that fact.
One argument I heard recently was that in baseball you are not supposed to try if the other guy isn't trying. For example, on the 3-0 pitch the pitcher is not trying to get an out, so the hitter is not supposed to try to get on base. It is simply the pitcher either hitting the strike zone or not. Then the example.... If it's late in a game with a big lead, and the first baseman is not trying to keep the runner on first, the runner isn't supposed to steal.
The thing is, a guy looks like a hypocrite if he goes out of his way to vocalize both support and disdain in two separate occasions for the same thing.
He swung at a pitch where everyone knew it was an intentional walk. Before this new intentional walk rule where no pitches are thrown (which I hate) a lot of times some of the balls would be thrown in a location, especially knowing what's coming, that a hitter could just step in and hammer the ball.
Edit for tense.
I've been around baseball all my life and have never heard this line of thinking. And, the pitcher might not be trying to get an out but he's sure trying to get closer to one by throwing a strike on 3-0. That line of thinking makes no sense at all. I mean, they ARE on the field and doing stuff, right? That means they're trying.
I had never heard it explained that way either. I feel like I was vaguely aware of this unwritten rule, and it also sort of explains the frustration I would often feel when a game still felt like it was winnable and the hitter would never swing on 3-0. Because realistically they know what is more often than not coming (a fast one down the middle).
Then you get stuff like this:
Steve
To tie a bow this nonsense, Toronto came back from 7-0 in their final at-bat today. So, Texas Rangers, STFU because the Padres scored more runs on you.
Having watch the Red Sox lose the 1986 World Series after they had “won” it. I know that no lead is ever safe. A manager might pull his best players for a rest or to avoid injury, but for the guys who are out there, you play as well as you can.
@Billjones That WS was very, very tough. As much as it hurt, it taught me to never give up on my team if they are losing - and as a Boston fan I've been rewarded many times since then after first being down.
No, I understand that. I don't understand how Ferguson had a 2 run single, but the final score was the same as before he batted.
And now the Padres have hit Grand Slam in 4 strait games. Are they suppose to disregard the first one now because of the unwritten rule? The next thing is they will have to have a manager challenge of braking an unwritten rule to MLB
Lafayette Grading Set
It took many years to get that “reward” ... almost 20 to be exact. That 1986 result was a very bitter pill, especially after the had not won since 1918.
I certainly get that under normal circumstances, it's usually safer/smarter to not swing at not-so-good and/or borderline pitches on a 3-0 count but c'mon, if a batter knows a pitch is right at their "sweet spot" in the strike zone (wherever it was in Fernando's case), of course you're gonna instinctively clobber it with all your might! I can't believe his own manager openly scolded him for it, but then again, there was an incident decades ago when a player was fined $100 by his manager for hitting a game winning home run (again because the pitcher just happened to throw a pitch right in his sweet spot of the strike zone)...because he didn't bunt as his skipper ordered him to!
Still by this same logic, does this mean if a team is clearly blowing out their opponent, does that mean, for example, they're morally obligated to say, get the ball for a wide open three point shot, but first purposely step inside the arc and then shoot and settle for two? Or a football team can only go for field goals and not touchdowns?
Now OTOH, it does make perfect sense both morally and strategically to have your second/third string guys and your "Rudys" (walk ons) in a blowout because they need every chance they can to get valuable playing experience...after all half or more of those guys might end up being first stringers next year!
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But it all paid off in the end.
I agree that there are many nuances to this and countless extrapolations. Baseball is so unique in it's history, unwritten rules being just a piece of what makes it so unique. It is sad to see things going the way they are.
If my team puts some hobbit out there i'm done with them
PS notre dame sucks
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