Not an expert but the videos that I saw didn't provide great lighting for luster on the 20's.
I have no prior experience with this auction house. Do they send all coins to NGC that would straight grade? Can you assume that any raw offerings did not make the cut? I have tried to use NGC photos to cross reference and it is helpful to see another perspective but the NGC photos aren't great either.
@SCT said:
Not an expert but the videos that I saw didn't provide great lighting for luster on the 20's.
I have no prior experience with this auction house. Do they send all coins to NGC that would straight grade? Can you assume that any raw offerings did not make the cut? I have tried to use NGC photos to cross reference and it is helpful to see another perspective but the NGC photos aren't great either.
No, it would not be typical for them to send everything in for grading. Generally just pieces which have a certain value. It is more typical for most coins to be raw.
@jonruns said:
I've found that buying A coins usually involves paying a premium...and that when you go to sell that dealers only want to offer B coin money...so unless you can find a collector who really wants/needs the coin there is going to be a loss...
Flower Hill's price of $6699 for the 1855-O XF45 is significantly higher than CAC price guide of $3590...I love NOLA old gold but that is a pretty steep increase to need to make up for a collector grade coin...
When I recently sold many of my old gold prices, the ones that went to dealers achieved A coin prices.
This is a very good point. Brian lived in Europe so he knows better than me, but as I understand it, many Europeans prefer raw vs certified. In addition, with no insult intended to our host, I believe NGC is a bigger player in Europe than PCGS...
While those videos are probably an attempt to get some higher bids from U.S. buyers...the bids from U.S. dealers will probably be conservative given that they haven't seen the coins in hand..the couple of U.S. dealers in old gold that I spoke with are aware of Kunker but they aren't attending and don't have representation...
Also Americans aren't the only people who collect old U.S. gold coins...I know that there are some great collections in Europe, the Middle East and Asia...
@jonruns said:
I've found that buying A coins usually involves paying a premium...and that when you go to sell that dealers only want to offer B coin money...so unless you can find a collector who really wants/needs the coin there is going to be a loss...
Flower Hill's price of $6699 for the 1855-O XF45 is significantly higher than CAC price guide of $3590...I love NOLA old gold but that is a pretty steep increase to need to make up for a collector grade coin...
When I recently sold many of my old gold prices, the ones that went to dealers achieved A coin prices.
I really enjoy the coin I was able to purchase from Brian.
I really enjoy the coin I was able to purchase from Brian.
Brian has a great eye for old gold...and old gold in auctions...personally I never would have seen those Kunker lots without his heads up LOL...I too was fortunate enough to purchase an exceptional coin from him a few years ago...
I really enjoy the coin I was able to purchase from Brian.
Brian has a great eye for old gold...and old gold in auctions...personally I never would have seen those Kunker lots without his heads up LOL...I too was fortunate enough to purchase an exceptional coin from him a few years ago...
If I recall you got my 1838 $10 and 1838-C $5. That 1838-C is the best EF coin!!!
Would love to see a pic of that 1838 $10! One of my favorite designs and I’ve looked for a nice one for a long time. RYK posted an exceptional one a while ago.
@scubafuel said:
Would love to see a pic of that 1838 $10! One of my favorite designs and I’ve looked for a nice one for a long time. RYK posted an exceptional one a while ago.
I always wanted that 1838. When DW sold it the price was unapproachable for me at the time.
I was in Venice and Verona during the time DW listed the RYK coins. I was given shot at one of the three coins I had coveted; the 38 $10, 38-D $5 or 1799 $5. I passed on all and enjoyed the opera in Verona.
That was the moment I moved on to world coins. The price of coins I actually wanted to own were beyond what I could afford or justify at that time.
I just purchased one of the half eagles to give my girlfriend for Christmas. It's a mysterious "hoard" and nobody seems to know exactly where they came from. Anyway, she will love to have a gold coin with a pedigree! It was pretty affordable too. (Just under $1,000)
Best regards, Dwayne F. Sessom Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
Stacks has sold hundreds if not thousands of “Fairmont” coins since this thread was first written. First Fairmont coins were included in multiple Stacks auctions. Then Stacks introduced the Hendricks and JBL sets which were nothing more than fictitious cherry-picked sets. We have no idea what Stacks is still sitting on and for that matter we have no idea about the origins of this hoard.
@skier07 said:
Stacks has sold hundreds if not thousands of “Fairmont” coins since this thread was first written. First Fairmont coins were included in multiple Stacks auctions. Then Stacks introduced the Hendricks and JBL sets which were nothing more than fictitious cherry-picked sets. We have no idea what Stacks is still sitting on and for that matter we have no idea about the origins of this hoard.
Yup. Would be great for Stack's to publish a book about the hoard after the last coin is finally sold.
I just purchased one of the half eagles to give my girlfriend for Christmas. It's a mysterious "hoard" and nobody seems to know exactly where they came from. Anyway, she will love to have a gold coin with a pedigree! It was pretty affordable too. (Just under $1,000)
I think the market could absorb plenty of additional Fairmont coins assuming they are the same or better quality than what’s been released. There’s a lot of interest in classic gold and these examples are fresh and generally original.
I was able to pick up this one in the most recent auction in November, 50cac. I like to think I paid a fair price for it considering some of recent sales of this issue in the prior auctions. Doug Winter's blog featured an interesting write up on the Fairmont collection, titled "Has the Market Begun to Undervalue Fairmont Coins?". He believes that some of the most recent sales were bargains, due to a phenomenon he's calling "Fairmont Fatigue". Doug suggests that the ongoing Fairmont Auctions, in combination with Stacks' refusal to release details about the quantities of coins found, has made many buyers wary about actual rarity of some of these issues. With that being said, he was speaking more of the 20k+ coins where he lists some examples of decreasing realized prices. The more affordable issues seem to be holding their value pretty well overall.
@DeplorableDan said:
I was able to pick up this one in the most recent auction in November, 50cac. I like to think I paid a fair price for it considering some of recent sales of this issue in the prior auctions. Doug Winter's blog featured an interesting write up on the Fairmont collection, titled "Has the Market Begun to Undervalue Fairmont Coins?". He believes that some of the most recent sales were bargains, due to a phenomenon he's calling "Fairmont Fatigue". Doug suggests that the ongoing Fairmont Auctions, in combination with Stacks' refusal to release details about the quantities of coins found, has made many buyers wary about actual rarity of some of these issues. With that being said, he was speaking more of the 20k+ coins where he lists some examples of decreasing realized prices. The more affordable issues seem to be holding their value pretty well overall.
I like this coin for many reasons! It has very nice color and strike! Plus there are just 13 finer at PCGS (as a rare medium D variety-25 total ) with only 1 BU, So being rare, from Dahlonega and choice (with CAC) makes it a very shrewd buy!
There do seem to be a lot of nice branch mint half Eagles popping up on the market lately. Fairmont or not, I do sniff an opportunity to pick up interesting coins right now at reasonable prices. This is only my second Charlotte coin, but I love the look & it seemed like a reasonable value.
@Boosibri said:
The absence of great coins like the 42 LL (aside from the countermarked piece), 47-O, 58-S make me very happy that such under-appreciated coins will remain scarce and desirable. The scarcity of the 50-P and 59-P hopefully stand up post hoard. If I still had a six figure collection of scarce and better date $5’s, this hoard would scare the crap out of me.
As crusty as this one is, I'm kind of happy too. This one is tough to find... I've tried to upgrade several times but prices always seemed too strong for me.
@mark_dak said:
As crusty as this one is, I'm kind of happy too. This one is tough to find... I've tried to upgrade several times but prices always seemed too strong for me.
Mark
The 1858-S $5 was considered rare up until a few years ago, when a number of high grade pieces started appearing at auction. Doug Winter suspects that a hoard might be being released into the market:
@mark_dak said:
As crusty as this one is, I'm kind of happy too. This one is tough to find... I've tried to upgrade several times but prices always seemed too strong for me.
Mark
The 1858-S $5 was considered rare up until a few years ago, when a number of high grade pieces started appearing at auction. Doug Winter suspects that a hoard might be being released into the market:
A few more than normal came to auction about 3 years ago if I remember but I got smoked by other bidders at the time. Been pretty much back to normal since... comes up on rare occasion. Looking back I probably should have bit the bullet and upgraded when I had the chance. If Doug Winter is right maybe the opportunity will come sooner rather than later.
@Boosibri said:
The absence of great coins like the 42 LL (aside from the countermarked piece), 47-O, 58-S make me very happy that such under-appreciated coins will remain scarce and desirable. The scarcity of the 50-P and 59-P hopefully stand up post hoard. If I still had a six figure collection of scarce and better date $5’s, this hoard would scare the crap out of me.
As crusty as this one is, I'm kind of happy too. This one is tough to find... I've tried to upgrade several times but prices always seemed too strong for me.
Mark
I love this undervalued date! Your 1858-S is very natural looking and appealing!
@mark_dak said:
As crusty as this one is, I'm kind of happy too. This one is tough to find... I've tried to upgrade several times but prices always seemed too strong for me.
Mark
The 1858-S $5 was considered rare up until a few years ago, when a number of high grade pieces started appearing at auction. Doug Winter suspects that a hoard might be being released into the market:
A few more than normal came to auction about 3 years ago if I remember but I got smoked by other bidders at the time. Been pretty much back to normal since... comes up on rare occasion. Looking back I probably should have bit the bullet and upgraded when I had the chance. If Doug Winter is right maybe the opportunity will come sooner rather than later.
@Boosibri said:
The absence of great coins like the 42 LL (aside from the countermarked piece), 47-O, 58-S make me very happy that such under-appreciated coins will remain scarce and desirable. The scarcity of the 50-P and 59-P hopefully stand up post hoard. If I still had a six figure collection of scarce and better date $5’s, this hoard would scare the crap out of me.
Comments
Curious what the gold experts here think of the Kunker coins now that videos have been added to some lots.
Not an expert but the videos that I saw didn't provide great lighting for luster on the 20's.
I have no prior experience with this auction house. Do they send all coins to NGC that would straight grade? Can you assume that any raw offerings did not make the cut? I have tried to use NGC photos to cross reference and it is helpful to see another perspective but the NGC photos aren't great either.
No, it would not be typical for them to send everything in for grading. Generally just pieces which have a certain value. It is more typical for most coins to be raw.
Latin American Collection
When I recently sold many of my old gold prices, the ones that went to dealers achieved A coin prices.
Latin American Collection
It is more typical for most coins to be raw.
This is a very good point. Brian lived in Europe so he knows better than me, but as I understand it, many Europeans prefer raw vs certified. In addition, with no insult intended to our host, I believe NGC is a bigger player in Europe than PCGS...
While those videos are probably an attempt to get some higher bids from U.S. buyers...the bids from U.S. dealers will probably be conservative given that they haven't seen the coins in hand..the couple of U.S. dealers in old gold that I spoke with are aware of Kunker but they aren't attending and don't have representation...
Also Americans aren't the only people who collect old U.S. gold coins...I know that there are some great collections in Europe, the Middle East and Asia...
Thank you both for the commentary.
I really enjoy the coin I was able to purchase from Brian.
Brian has a great eye for old gold...and old gold in auctions...personally I never would have seen those Kunker lots without his heads up LOL...I too was fortunate enough to purchase an exceptional coin from him a few years ago...
If I recall you got my 1838 $10 and 1838-C $5. That 1838-C is the best EF coin!!!
Latin American Collection
Would love to see a pic of that 1838 $10! One of my favorite designs and I’ve looked for a nice one for a long time. RYK posted an exceptional one a while ago.
I always wanted that 1838. When DW sold it the price was unapproachable for me at the time.
Latin American Collection
Can @RYK post an image of that 1838 $10 EF40?
I was in Venice and Verona during the time DW listed the RYK coins. I was given shot at one of the three coins I had coveted; the 38 $10, 38-D $5 or 1799 $5. I passed on all and enjoyed the opera in Verona.
That was the moment I moved on to world coins. The price of coins I actually wanted to own were beyond what I could afford or justify at that time.
Latin American Collection
Ahh two old friends
Latin American Collection
The 38-C $5 is a moose.
I just purchased one of the half eagles to give my girlfriend for Christmas. It's a mysterious "hoard" and nobody seems to know exactly where they came from. Anyway, she will love to have a gold coin with a pedigree! It was pretty affordable too. (Just under $1,000)
Dwayne F. Sessom
Ebay ID: V-Nickel-Coins
Stacks has sold hundreds if not thousands of “Fairmont” coins since this thread was first written. First Fairmont coins were included in multiple Stacks auctions. Then Stacks introduced the Hendricks and JBL sets which were nothing more than fictitious cherry-picked sets. We have no idea what Stacks is still sitting on and for that matter we have no idea about the origins of this hoard.
Yup. Would be great for Stack's to publish a book about the hoard after the last coin is finally sold.
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Nice strike, color and luster!
I think the market could absorb plenty of additional Fairmont coins assuming they are the same or better quality than what’s been released. There’s a lot of interest in classic gold and these examples are fresh and generally original.
Great coin @dsessom !
I was able to pick up this one in the most recent auction in November, 50cac. I like to think I paid a fair price for it considering some of recent sales of this issue in the prior auctions. Doug Winter's blog featured an interesting write up on the Fairmont collection, titled "Has the Market Begun to Undervalue Fairmont Coins?". He believes that some of the most recent sales were bargains, due to a phenomenon he's calling "Fairmont Fatigue". Doug suggests that the ongoing Fairmont Auctions, in combination with Stacks' refusal to release details about the quantities of coins found, has made many buyers wary about actual rarity of some of these issues. With that being said, he was speaking more of the 20k+ coins where he lists some examples of decreasing realized prices. The more affordable issues seem to be holding their value pretty well overall.
Founder- Peak Rarities
Website
Instagram
Facebook
There will be a situation where you will have to hold some of the dates for a longer term to eventually see values appreciate.
I like this coin for many reasons! It has very nice color and strike! Plus there are just 13 finer at PCGS (as a rare medium D variety-25 total ) with only 1 BU, So being rare, from Dahlonega and choice (with CAC) makes it a very shrewd buy!
There do seem to be a lot of nice branch mint half Eagles popping up on the market lately. Fairmont or not, I do sniff an opportunity to pick up interesting coins right now at reasonable prices. This is only my second Charlotte coin, but I love the look & it seemed like a reasonable value.
As crusty as this one is, I'm kind of happy too. This one is tough to find... I've tried to upgrade several times but prices always seemed too strong for me.
Mark
The 1858-S $5 was considered rare up until a few years ago, when a number of high grade pieces started appearing at auction. Doug Winter suspects that a hoard might be being released into the market:
https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2022/6/30/the-impact-of-the-fairmont-hoard-on-the-san-francisco-gold-market-part-one-half-eagles
Here's mine. It's still a favorite.
Beautiful coin!
A few more than normal came to auction about 3 years ago if I remember but I got smoked by other bidders at the time. Been pretty much back to normal since... comes up on rare occasion. Looking back I probably should have bit the bullet and upgraded when I had the chance. If Doug Winter is right maybe the opportunity will come sooner rather than later.
Mark
Gotta be a quantity of coins from the Fairmont Hotel. Maybe an old safe that someone finally opened. IMO. Peace Roy
BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW
I love this undervalued date! Your 1858-S is very natural looking and appealing!
Still rare! A lovely coin!
Not choice, but 1842 LL
Perhaps the Fairmont Hotel in Ottawa close to the Royal Bank of Canada where the coins were tucked away in a SDB.