The halo appears to be PVC or some other form of surface contamination. Not significant.
As to the depression around the mint mark, mint marks used to be applied to individual working dies with a hand-held steel punch and a mallet. As the mint mark punch entered the die it displaced die steel sideways and up. I call it the "cratering effect," similar to a meteor crater.
If the raised metal that forms the crater rim is not polished away prior to the die being used, the raised metal on the die leaves a depression on the coin around the mint mark. This is an unusually strong example of the effect, though as a rule it is not considered significant as a variety. Worth keeping, but not worth anything.
Hope this helps.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@CaptHenway said:
The halo appears to be PVC or some other form of surface contamination. Not significant.
As to the depression around the mint mark, mint marks used to be applied to individual working dies with a hand-held steel punch and a mallet. As the mint mark punch entered the die it displaced die steel sideways and up. I call it the "cratering effect," similar to a meteor crater.
If the raised metal that forms the crater rim is not polished away prior to the die being used, the raised metal on the die leaves a depression on the coin around the mint mark. This is an unusually strong example of the effect, though as a rule it is not considered significant as a variety. Worth keeping, but not worth anything.
@CaptHenway said:
The halo appears to be PVC or some other form of surface contamination. Not significant.
As to the depression around the mint mark, mint marks used to be applied to individual working dies with a hand-held steel punch and a mallet. As the mint mark punch entered the die it displaced die steel sideways and up. I call it the "cratering effect," similar to a meteor crater.
If the raised metal that forms the crater rim is not polished away prior to the die being used, the raised metal on the die leaves a depression on the coin around the mint mark. This is an unusually strong example of the effect, though as a rule it is not considered significant as a variety. Worth keeping, but not worth anything.
Hope this helps.
TD
Great explanation. This cratering effect is helpful when authenticating coins such the 1932-D or S quarter which is counterfeited by gluing or soldering a mintmark onto the far more common 1932 quarter. Of course, you lose the cratering effect once the die has been polished.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
@ms70 said:
The metal does not appear to have the same grain in the mentioned areas.
Yes. There's a faint crack above the mint mark between the two surfaces. The reverse also has a faint halo of a differing flow pattern as well. Couldn't sort out the cause.
what Tom said but i'll add that in order for it to be depressed (negative) on the coin, it needs to be raised (positive) on the working die so the punch would need to be recessed (negative) around the letter/number on the punch which is not with my experience looking at/using various letter/number punches. i'd say the punch is raised around the mm and when punched into a hub or master die (not working die), then can the area on the coin be depressed.
i'm mostly only interjecting this to get those not familiar with the effects being transferred from negative to positive to negative or some other order to be more familiar. - figuring out clashes, counter-clashes etc can take some serious focus and i am not always able to do it on spec. sometimes taking a break can help when untangling this stuff.
you will hear/read this term "hub doubling" come from wiles and some others and this usually indicates a mistake (doubling, tripling, clashing, rpm, ddo) but usually not FS listable as it would be on virtually all coins and usually insignificant (as i understand it) since a hub or master die transfers to multiple working dies. ie: washing quarter double ears and some other coins features as well.
i can go further into technical definitions of errors/mistakes/varieties but this isn't the spot.
It is hard to tell for sure from the photos.
The distortions in the fields could be from a die clash that was polished out or it could be die erosion, maybe even a combination of both....a polished clash that has distorted from erosion. The photos make it look like the dies may have clashed at one point. It could also be a grease filled area on the die or as mentioned it may be some type of storage/environmental damage.
Better photos would be needed to say for sure.
@ifthevamzarockin said:
It is hard to tell for sure from the photos.
The distortions in the fields could be from a die clash that was polished out or it could be die erosion, maybe even a combination of both....a polished clash that has distorted from erosion. The photos make it look like the dies may have clashed at one point. It could also be a grease filled area on the die or as mentioned it may be some type of storage/environmental damage.
Better photos would be needed to say for sure.
Much better photos!
Here is one that has a field anomaly I think may have been caused by grease.
Yours may be something similar???
I hold on to coins like this as a reference, I don't know that is adds much value.
I agree with @CaptHenway
Judging by the obverse device details, this coin was struck under greater than normal pressure off a worn, overused obverse Working Die. This accounts for the metal flow marks, die chips, MM dimple, muted detail, die scratches, and uneven field luster. The Mint frequently did this to extend die life. Look at the fresh Working Die detail on the reverse. It is spectacular. The Lettering and Eagle "pop" off the surface. This is the giveaway that the striking pressure was increased to offset the obverse die ware. This is a nice example with many of these facets only seen individually on most strikes. Nice piece!
bombtech25
Posts: 209 ✭✭✭
Comments
The "scratched to hades" effect?
I'm not sure I know what you mean ... effect?
There’s a halo around the face and the fields have an odd surface. Mint mark is indented.
The halo appears to be PVC or some other form of surface contamination. Not significant.
As to the depression around the mint mark, mint marks used to be applied to individual working dies with a hand-held steel punch and a mallet. As the mint mark punch entered the die it displaced die steel sideways and up. I call it the "cratering effect," similar to a meteor crater.
If the raised metal that forms the crater rim is not polished away prior to the die being used, the raised metal on the die leaves a depression on the coin around the mint mark. This is an unusually strong example of the effect, though as a rule it is not considered significant as a variety. Worth keeping, but not worth anything.
Hope this helps.
TD
It does. Thank you
@CaptHenway .... Thanks for the explanation. Certainly an interesting effect. Cheers, RickO
Great explanation. This cratering effect is helpful when authenticating coins such the 1932-D or S quarter which is counterfeited by gluing or soldering a mintmark onto the far more common 1932 quarter. Of course, you lose the cratering effect once the die has been polished.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
The metal does not appear to have the same grain in the mentioned areas.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Yes. There's a faint crack above the mint mark between the two surfaces. The reverse also has a faint halo of a differing flow pattern as well. Couldn't sort out the cause.
what Tom said but i'll add that in order for it to be depressed (negative) on the coin, it needs to be raised (positive) on the working die so the punch would need to be recessed (negative) around the letter/number on the punch which is not with my experience looking at/using various letter/number punches. i'd say the punch is raised around the mm and when punched into a hub or master die (not working die), then can the area on the coin be depressed.
i'm mostly only interjecting this to get those not familiar with the effects being transferred from negative to positive to negative or some other order to be more familiar. - figuring out clashes, counter-clashes etc can take some serious focus and i am not always able to do it on spec. sometimes taking a break can help when untangling this stuff.
you will hear/read this term "hub doubling" come from wiles and some others and this usually indicates a mistake (doubling, tripling, clashing, rpm, ddo) but usually not FS listable as it would be on virtually all coins and usually insignificant (as i understand it) since a hub or master die transfers to multiple working dies. ie: washing quarter double ears and some other coins features as well.
i can go further into technical definitions of errors/mistakes/varieties but this isn't the spot.
nice pics, coin and observation @bombtech25
It is hard to tell for sure from the photos.
The distortions in the fields could be from a die clash that was polished out or it could be die erosion, maybe even a combination of both....a polished clash that has distorted from erosion. The photos make it look like the dies may have clashed at one point. It could also be a grease filled area on the die or as mentioned it may be some type of storage/environmental damage.
Better photos would be needed to say for sure.
Much better photos!
Here is one that has a field anomaly I think may have been caused by grease.
Yours may be something similar???
I hold on to coins like this as a reference, I don't know that is adds much value.
Here is one with some erosion going on.
I agree with @CaptHenway
Judging by the obverse device details, this coin was struck under greater than normal pressure off a worn, overused obverse Working Die. This accounts for the metal flow marks, die chips, MM dimple, muted detail, die scratches, and uneven field luster. The Mint frequently did this to extend die life. Look at the fresh Working Die detail on the reverse. It is spectacular. The Lettering and Eagle "pop" off the surface. This is the giveaway that the striking pressure was increased to offset the obverse die ware. This is a nice example with many of these facets only seen individually on most strikes. Nice piece!