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Clark Gruber Grading Test....

MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

No cheating!


Andy Lustig

Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

Comments

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020 7:03PM

    I'm sure this is going to be an epic failure but AU53?

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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,865 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Au 55

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,874 ✭✭✭✭✭

    58

    Latin American Collection

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    CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Slight wear? Strike weakness? I'm going to say AU-55 with the sticker. Pretty coin!

    Got Crust....y gold?
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    CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks XF at best to me, but not my area by a long shot.

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CharlotteDude said:
    Slight wear? Strike weakness?

    That was the challenge for me. I didn't know how much was from wear and what was attributable to strike.

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 9,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. Love it.
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    OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU55. Hard to determine wear from pics, but looks to me like light rub on the wings.

    OINK

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m going to be out in left field (all by myself, at least for now), but that coin looks really nice for what it is. I’ll guess MS63.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    45

    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,858 ✭✭✭✭✭

    AU 58. What's with the dentils at 8:30 on the obverse ? Dream coin.

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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And I am not averse to the 63 grade, which is my choice. It looks well struck for what it is. Much of the softer detail is NOT wear but soft strike. The crude edges are nearly as struck.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    SimpleCollectorSimpleCollector Posts: 536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My grade without seeing how others voted ....was 63

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    MFeldMFeld Posts: 12,056 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020 8:10PM

    @MrEureka said:

    Wow, have you seen it in hand? If so, why was it silently net graded?

    Anything less than 55 would have surprised me,

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can understand why some people graded it AU. So for the sake of education, here's an AU for comparison.



    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @MrEureka said:

    Wow, have you seen it in hand? If so, why was it silently net graded?

    Anything less than 55 would have surprised me,

    No, I haven't seen it in hand.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m convinced Territorials are graded with a dart and dart board. This example didn’t merit a sticker either. This issue is on my short list of wants.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020 8:30PM

    @MFeld said:
    Wow, have you seen it in hand? If so, why was it silently net graded?

    Anything less than 55 would have surprised me,

    Laura attributes it to planchet issues:
    https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/70208700/-10-1860-clark-gruber--pcgs-xf40/?cpage=8&q=&ref=catalog

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Heck, I was waffling between 53 and 55 on the first coin and I am a conservative grader!

    That second piece is an atrocity!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have guessed 55.

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    7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yikes, Legend was seemingly speaking about the 2nd of the two coins. The first looks for issue to have a quite decent planchet.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    Heck, I was waffling between 53 and 55 on the first coin and I am a conservative grader!

    That second piece is an atrocity!

    Same here. I originally wrote 55 and edited to 53.

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 9, 2020 11:59PM

    @Justacommeman said:
    I’m convinced Territorials are graded with a dart and dart board. This example didn’t merit a sticker either. This issue is on my short list of wants.

    mark

    Out of curiosity, have you seen the coin in hand? How bad are the planchet imperfections that Laura mentions? Is it the planchet flaws or some hairlines that keep it from a sticker?

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2020 12:28AM

    I was in the 55 camp.

    From Laura:

    We think that back when this coin was graded, it was "net" graded for some microscopic planchet flaws, as made. A few wispy marks are noted with a glass, evidence of its time in frontier commerce, none of which are distracting to the eye.

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
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    1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 3,837 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2020 2:55AM

    Here is the Clark Gruber I once owned. It is the larger $20 of same 1860 date (although not in gold) and FWIW is PCGS graded VF35.

    I sold it in a Heritage auction so perhaps MFeld can provide additional photos.

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    JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would have said 61.

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Even though I guessed 45, I'm pretty surprised by 40. My guess was based on:
    1. Seeing a handful of apparently luster-free flat spots here and there that seemed big enough to handily knock it out of AU58 or MS grades.
    2. The counter-intuitive nature of GTG threads.

    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
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    CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess I'm the only participant who sees obvious wear all over the coin and thinks XF is appropriate.

    My Roosevelt Dime Registry Set
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    CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think XF would be the more appropriate grade for the second (AU50) example. For me, there's too much obvious wear and the surfaces are too dull to warrant an AU grade. Me thinks PCGS was too generous on that one.

    Got Crust....y gold?
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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was going to say 58. Nice coin!

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    RYKRYK Posts: 35,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    I’m going to be out in left field (all by myself, at least for now), but that coin looks really nice for what it is. I’ll guess MS63.

    I was going to guess 64 (before reading all of the lowball answers).

    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,564 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The first coin does have a few minor planchet issues, but I would be very pleased and proud to own it!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 3,837 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1northcoin said:
    Here is the Clark Gruber I once owned. It is the larger $20 of same 1860 date (although not in gold) and FWIW is PCGS graded VF35.

    I sold it in a Heritage auction so perhaps MFeld can provide additional photos.

    Apparently it appeared under graded as well to the auction buyers as it did well.

    Enlarging the photo seems to confirm that.

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    WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 8,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never would’ve guessed below 53.

    “I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

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