"Rare" 1985 Silver Eagle Concept Coin ... on eBay, of course!
astrorat
Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
https://ebay.com/itm/143672385051?ul_noapp=true
"SUPER RARE 1985 SILVER EAGLE CONCEPT COIN ANACS CERTIFIED MS68. This is the Silver Eagle to have! No Silver Eagle collection is complete without it. These were the concept coins shown to congress for there approval. MS 68 is almost perfect. Any questions, please ask. I pack items carefully and always ship promptly after payment is made. Standard shipping with insurance. (USPS First class package). I have been an eBay member since 1999 and I have a 100% positive feedback rating."
I sent a message alerting the seller to what the coin really is ... but the listing still is out there waiting for that one "lucky" buyer. 
Numismatist Ordinaire
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
2
Comments
I just sent the seller a message, will update if there is any response.
Is this a Carr? This is why these should be confiscated and melted.
Yes, it's a DC fantasy piece. But remember, since no Silver Eagles were produced in 1985, there is no way for anyone to mistake this for a real coin ... right?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
@cameonut2011 Yes, this is a Carr creation. But, why should it be confiscated and melted because everyone will always know what this "coin" is and so some sort of distinguishing feature (such as copy) is totally unnecessary! OK, now I turn off the sarcasm and say that I agree with you 100%.
The slab label states exactly what it is. You can't save people from overpaying for stuff on eBay or any other auction venue.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Wow! Super cheap too! I’ll take 3 please, a bridge and a few acres in Florida.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Because everybody in America is required to own a Redbook, right?
There's no requirement to own a Red Book or any coin book for that matter. Everyone has the right to be ignorant and to grossly overpay for a coin. It happens every day on eBay, at coin shops, and on many other venues.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall The label says "Overstruck Silver Eagle Design." I hardly think this designation is particularly clear about what this piece actually is. Plus the reverse says "Authenticated". The reverse makes it sound as if the so-called coin is "authentic." I agree with you insofar as I also believe that people should generally be responsible for their own behavior but these labels do not signal to me that this "coin" is privately made. If the coin had something such as "copy" somewhere on it, then I think it would be about 1,000% clearer what the coin was.
People should know what they are selling.
People should know what they are buying.
I know these tribute coins exist in a sort of legal grey area.
Collector, occasional seller
Perhaps my sarcasm was a bit too subtle. An argument used to support some "fantasy" pieces is that since it is not duplicating any coin that really existed, nobody will be fooled.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
If it had "COPY" on it, what would it be a copy of? It's a fantasy coin after all.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
See this thread.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1031924/text-of-the-hobby-protection-act#latest
1) I think that label could have been more clear (I took a look and all I could see was "DC" to indicate it was a Daniel Carr piece).
2) The confusion (lie?) on the pat of the seller is his won fault. He did not confuse it with a genuine coin - he concocted a story (or listened to someone else who did) that it was a "concept coin".
While the seller was wrong for this coin, DC and others (Gallery Mint) have issued concept tokens for Congress and others to consider. Maybe he just got confused, but in any case he did not imply it was legal tender.
No wet signature on the back of the label? (sarcasm)
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reported to ebay as a total b.s. listing
ANACS should have been much more thorough in what this fantasy piece is and included something like "FANTASY INGOT" on the insert. Surprised the ANACS legal team didn't think having "Silver Eagle" on the insert was a bad idea and a potential liability...
Got this ad looking at the thread, a little too close for comfort!
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
why are the images of such poor quality?! 😂 g'luck 🤙
It seems that the coin as slabbed by ANACS is a little confusing at best and deceptive at worst. I blame ANACS and a lack of information on the insert to state exactly what it is.
Can I start the bidding at 40.00? Oh, it's already at $500.00.....what?????
Daniel struck this coin nearly 35 years ago. I’m not sure if things in the hobby have changed since then..
Edit, no he didn’t even strike it in 1985... Yeah I can see where this would cause problems.
If this piece was An identical over strike fantasy piece but had a Chinese origin a lot of you would be screaming bloody murder
From the moonlight mint website:
“By purchasing one or more of these, the buyer agrees to provide full disclosure of their origin when reselling them. Failure to provide potential buyers with complete and accurate information when offering these could result in criminal and/or civil fraud charges. In other words, don't try to sell to unaware buyers as original coins of this date. “
Of course, it’s not like this blurb travels with the coin. The original buyer can sell it to whoever they want to as a fantasy piece, The next owner knows nothing about this pretty sketchy legal agreement.
I informed the seller (via eBay message) that it is NOT a concept that was ever "shown to Congress". So they should know now that their claim is incorrect. We will see If they persist in using that in the description.
I bet @dcarr never got paid close to that for it.
True, but that price isn't unheard of for a piece of his on the secondary market. This is less than what I've seen his proof-like 1964 Peace dollars and Oregon halves sell for.
I blame ANACS too. It needs to grow a spine and do what its website references:
I basically told him the same thing and that it was a recent struck fantasy issue. That seller knows what he has. He's tried to peddle it several times before w/o any takers. Perhaps a word from you to ebay might end this scam.
If you are so convinced that “no one would be fooled” as you have said repeatedly in the past then why go through all of the effort? You’ve also basically said caveat emptor and basically washed your hands of those defrauded by your works in the after market so why pretend to care now? If you followed the law, this would be a non-issue in any event.
Re: “No one would be fooled...”
I’m just going to leave this here: https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/1922-d-half-dollar-struck-at-private-mint.html .
If someone is going to state a falsehood to help sell a coin for more that it is worth, then they could do that with almost any coin - they don't need a "Carr" piece for that.
It's interesting that the first obverse photo is clear followed by several blurry reverse photos. It has the unfortunate effect of hiding the following text, which is more description than I've seen on other slabs.
You’re changing the subject. Of course fraud exists and has existed for centuries. Producing high quality imitations which enable fraudsters is the issue... The Mint has produced a number of patterns and quirky issues with dates preceding or immediately following a series.
All ANACS-certified "Carr" over-strike Silver Eagles (except those with the Moonlight Mint label) have that statement on the back, as far as I know.
Good to know. That's a nice, clear message.
Here's a clearer one:
If this piece was An identical over strike fantasy piece but had a Chinese origin a lot of you would be screaming bloody murder
POTD.
Has there been one in the decade since Dan struck his first 1964 Peace Dollar?
Could be interesting to see the response.
I haven't heard of one. And if one hasn't been made yet, will one ever be made?
I have been in the same position as Mike Fahey many a time. Heck, he used to work for me.
When people find something that is "not in the book," their first reaction is not "Gee, if it is not in the book it must be a fantasy made by a private minter!", it is "Gee, if it is not in the book it must be super rare and valuable!" This is basic human nature.
TD
Seller has not responded and has not ended the listing.
Seems like a dishonest seller trying to take advantage of someone.
Not the type of person I want to do any kind of business with..... this one goes on the blocked bidder list.
All other angles aside, I am a little surprised that the DC token mentioned in this article went from premium collectable to unknown anomaly in such a short time. What was the chain of ownership, I wonder.
The Redbook has fantasies so, given the popularity of Dan's pieces now, the Redbook editors should consider adding Dan’s pieces.
If the Redbook becomes less comprehensive over time, people need to treat it differently.
Why not start a new book, “The Redbook of Counterfeits, Forgeries, and Altered Coins?”
I don't think the item in question is really an "unknown anomaly" to the present owner (the seller).
Yes, I agree on that one, but I was thinking of the one in the CW article.
The eBay seller has proven himself to be disreputable. Sad thin is, his token is sort of "rare", etc. He just took a few too many liberties with the facts,
I don’t think D Carr is a bad guy and he is clearly a master technician and engineer but profiting off of counterfeit and fantasy coins is the bottom of the hobby and unbecoming of his talents. His stuff is really just higher quality gallery mint stuff but it shouldn’t be treated any differently.
At least hobo nickels are the artist’s original ideas and don’t pretend to be something. His (marketable) designs are really just rebranded other people’s brilliance. His unique stuff is much better IMO
I have maintained since he discovered his cash cow with the 1964d peace dollar that if he was D. Lee he would not be embraced and there certainly wouldn’t be ANACS slabbed examples. Although knowing ANACS I can’t swear to that last point.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I do remember some people copying Daniel‘s designs, I don’t remember if he had a problem with it or not though..
JedPlanchet thanks for posting that, so readers who came in after the listing was zapped can see what is being talked about.
Keep an eye on this seller. It would not surprise me if it gets listed again.
https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/gofn?filter=feedback_page:All