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While I am waiting for my order to process...looking at other orders...lots of counterfeits

oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited July 29, 2020 11:45AM in U.S. Coin Forum

Are counterfeits getting that good, or are some folks just looking for a big score?

oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...

Comments

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Amazing

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,804 ✭✭✭✭✭

    UFB!

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 9,015 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Damn! Our host has quite a responsibility to catch these fakes and stop the plague. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,967 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Half the dealers I work with couldn't spot a current Chinese counterfeit if it smacked them right between the eyes. Their know it all stubbornness makes the problem even worse. That's reality.

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
    BOOMIN!™

  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,126 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hate to be on the receiving end of that submission!

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hold up. If a Chinese coin is minted in China how is it a counterfeit?

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,798 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'd hate to the authenticator who needs to be expert in world coins. It's hard enough for me to detect relatively obvious counterfeits in the couple of series I know best.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020 7:52PM

    Slabbed Chinese coins are expensive ($1000s to $10000s) so I'm not surprised some try to get a deal for raw coins ($100s).

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @abcde12345 said:
    Hold up. If a Chinese coin is minted in China how is it a counterfeit?

    You mean like if Henning made his US nickels in the US?

  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    Hold up. If a Chinese coin is minted in China how is it a counterfeit?

    You mean like if Henning made his US nickels in the US?

    More like if Henning minted nickels in Henning, Tennessee.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning,_Tennessee

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 29, 2020 8:44PM

    @abcde12345 said:

    @Zoins said:

    @abcde12345 said:
    Hold up. If a Chinese coin is minted in China how is it a counterfeit?

    You mean like if Henning made his US nickels in the US?

    More like if Henning minted nickels in Henning, Tennessee.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henning,_Tennessee

    What if a "Chinese" counterfeit was minted in China, Texas ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China,_Texas

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's definitely a problem.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,787 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    What if a "Chinese" counterfeit was minted in China, Texas ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China,_Texas

    or China, Maine

    China is a town in Kennebec County, Maine, United States. The population was 4,328 at the 2010 census.

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,949 ✭✭✭✭✭

    maybe the counterfeiters are submitting in China to get them in a legit slab. Wonder how many make it.

    The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong

  • Moxie15Moxie15 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    Counterfeit detection has always been one of the top jobs of a TPG. Years ago I read an article that stated that when ANACS was started a very high percentage of 09-S and 14-D cents they saw were altered and counterfeit.
    This is nothing new.

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:
    maybe the counterfeiters are submitting in China to get them in a legit slab. Wonder how many make it.

    Highly doubt it. Thats a lot money to be spent in slabbing cost. Easier to sell raw to unsuspecting people.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very sad.... and the counterfeit US gold coins are plentiful as well....Cheers, RickO

  • silverpopsilverpop Posts: 6,692 ✭✭✭✭✭

    news flash

    people think coins are a easy way to make money and will buy what they think will make them a lot of money, but then again this is the real world were greed overrides common sense a lot of times

    COINS FOR SALE, IN LINK BELOW
    https://photos.app.goo.gl/KCJYQg9x5sPJiCBc9

  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    @Moxie15 said:
    Counterfeit detection has always been one of the top jobs of a TPG. Years ago I read an article that stated that when ANACS was started a very high percentage of 09-S and 14-D cents they saw were altered and counterfeit.
    This is nothing new.

    I know next to nothing about counterfeiting, but I just watched a video interview from 2016 with the founders of PCGS and they talked a little about the counterfeiting problem and the techniques the counterfeiters use. One of them is to make a mold from a genuine coin to create a die from that stamps out counterfeits. But based on the marks and other characteristics of the original coin, a TPG can compare other coins to it to see if they're clones. The only way to do this effectively is to have a thorough photo database of coins, like I think maybe our host has dabbled in? ;)

    Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To the best of my knowledge it is legal, according to China Law, in PRoC to produce coin replicas dated 1948 end earlier.
    Emphasis is on produce.!!! not sell or distribute... But do you think the Chinese care?
    many years ago one could buy nearly ANY coin, any quantity as a fake, with an acceptable weight tolerance and the close to proper alloy.. (be aware of fake weight cores) all for prices from USD 2 to you name it. Shop was located off Granville Ave in HKG. if you bought ten they even bought you an authentic Chinese lunch from a street vendor.
    If a coin was not readily available, they had it for you next morning....delivered to the hotel. NO extra charge.
    Even today one of the main business of a well known chinese company (Ali Baba) is selling fakes by mail order. there are several manufacturers for fakes, and all lare legit in China.
    just ask google..... google knows it all
    BUT, huge BUT: as long as ICE, US and other customs authorities of other countries, do literally NOTHING to stem the flow. the trade will increase. it is a fact that hindsight is alway 20/20.
    it would be so simple and relatively cheap to stop the flow to a large extend.
    Simply enforce the law and increase penalty for possession and enforce these penalties.
    We have a perfect example right now:
    it is called Covith 19 epidemic. at first it was done away by Gov's as no problem. then it became real. and now, it is very real and huge damage is happening.
    Now, convert that to read coins and currency instead of a virus.
    the simplest way would be to add one more question to the customs immigration form:
    Did you acquire any US or foreign coinage or currency while out of the country?
    in small type add the penalties.
    and have dogs at border points "smell coinage and notes".
    here is a interesting and educational link
    https://www.thesprucecrafts.com/chinese-coin-counterfeiting-ring-4071202

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,314 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One more thing:
    2 US and Canadian TPGS were fooled by a chinese fake of a very high end Canadian cent, of such a high quality, they both certified it without any problem.
    The coin was made with highest precision machinery, computer assisted etc I think it is called (CDR?)
    these machines will make everything to fool anybody...... in any alloy and metal. as long as you have ONE original.
    That is a very small investment considering the possible profits.

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • mothra454mothra454 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    As counterfeiting tech advances, is part of the solution to keep graded coins in old holders so it can be verified that they were encapsulated before a certain date?

    Successful BST transactions with: Cameonut, Rob41281

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am about 99% sure these submissions are not in the US. Not sure any of the coins have ever been here./

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,365 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:
    Half the dealers I work with couldn't spot a current Chinese counterfeit if it smacked them right between the eyes. Their know it all stubbornness makes the problem even worse. That's reality.

    Looks like you might have reduced the dealers you work with by half. Kudos.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,254 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dbldie55 said:
    I am about 99% sure these submissions are not in the US. Not sure any of the coins have ever been here./

    I guess it would be too big of a headache to differentiate U.S. from Worldwide Submissions. There are LOTS of Chinese coin submissions in and around the OP submission.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Never thought that they would counterfeit the holders too. I was wrong. btw They use to do bad things to counterfeiters way back in history. Governments wouldn't allow a debasement of their currency.

    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

    100% Positive BST transactions
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,092 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if PCGS has a total of all submitted coins that were/are counterfeits.

    theknowitalltroll;
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 4,098 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 30, 2020 9:58AM

    They still cost the same to grade :)

    Any normal submission with all fails has to hurt some submitter at least a bit.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,424 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How sad to see that

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31, 2020 7:01PM

    @1630Boston said:

    @Zoins said:

    What if a "Chinese" counterfeit was minted in China, Texas ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China,_Texas

    or China, Maine

    China is a town in Kennebec County, Maine, United States. The population was 4,328 at the 2010 census.

    Yes, there are "Chinese" in Maine too! ;)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China,_Maine

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