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1922 No D Lincoln Grade

How do you think he will do at PCGS grade wise? Sending in with a group this week. I am not sure what is on it so I will likely add the conservation.



Comments

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am guessing MS-62 RB, but this is one of the hardest U.S. coins to grade and anything is possible.

    I am writing a book about 1922 cents of all kinds. Can I please have a set of high resolution images of this coin for possible use in it? Nice example of a Die Pair #3.

    Tom DeLorey

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 8,272 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 20, 2020 11:28AM

    If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

    Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

  • ilmcoinsilmcoins Posts: 368 ✭✭✭

    Those are two very different opinions thus far!

  • ilmcoinsilmcoins Posts: 368 ✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    I am guessing MS-62 RB, but this is one of the hardest U.S. coins to grade and anything is possible.

    I am writing a book about 1922 cents of all kinds. Can I please have a set of high resolution images of this coin for possible use in it? Nice example of a Die Pair #3.

    Tom DeLorey

    These are the best I have for now. Will see if I can get better when it returns

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

    Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

    It is not counterfeit.

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ilmcoins said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    I am guessing MS-62 RB, but this is one of the hardest U.S. coins to grade and anything is possible.

    I am writing a book about 1922 cents of all kinds. Can I please have a set of high resolution images of this coin for possible use in it? Nice example of a Die Pair #3.

    Tom DeLorey

    These are the best I have for now. Will see if I can get better when it returns

    Can you please email these for my reference files?
    Thanks.

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FWIW, I do not think it needs any conservation, but I may be wrong.
    Can you request a TrueView on it?

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 8,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I must say I've seen a bunch of 22-P's...most certainly not as many as you, but I've never seen a strong reverse with a crap die like that before! Maybe it's the pictures, but the whole coin looks off to me.

    @CaptHenway said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

    Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

    It is not counterfeit.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 18,176 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The obverse rim looks off too.
    I know some of these counterfeits are getting better and perhaps this one qualifies as one of those. I mix that
    general take though with CaptHenway's thoughts and thus give pause to my gut reaction. If real, the color does look
    like it has been enhanced.

    peacockcoins

  • seanqseanq Posts: 7,884 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it's genuine but from the pics I cannot tell if the surfaces are covered in black carbon spots or nicks and gouges. If it straight grades I could see it in the AU53-55 range, but from the pics I think an AU Details holder is in your future.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 6,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @seanq said:
    I think it's genuine but from the pics I cannot tell if the surfaces are covered in black carbon spots or nicks and gouges. If it straight grades I could see it in the AU53-55 range, but from the pics I think an AU Details holder is in your future.

    Sean Reynolds

    I mostly agree with you but feel it will end up in an UNC details holder.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 4,799 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For those of you that might be mistaken: It's a die pair 3, not the strong reverse die pair 2.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A very unattractive weak rev coin that may get a details grade.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • lkeneficlkenefic Posts: 4,991 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins like this is why I'm not a dealer! Tough error to grade in any case let alone with the carbon spots or nicks or whatever is going on with this particular piece. If you send it in, I'd be curious what our hosts have to say...

    Collecting ... dust

    Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI.
  • jclovescoinsjclovescoins Posts: 955 ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting coin. I think it is counterfeit too, but hope I am wrong!

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BuffaloIronTail said:
    For those of you that might be mistaken: It's a die pair 3, not the strong reverse die pair 2.

    Pete

    Yep.

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Color looks off, it may just be the photo but it may have been cleaned at some point.
    Genuine / Details

  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 5,385 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It just doesn't look right to me!
    Someone did something to that coin!

    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 7,698 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Doesn't look like a counterfeit ... but the color looks off.

    Real nice!

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 22,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unc. Details jmo

  • lusterloverlusterlover Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭

    I'm in the camp that it looks funny, but I'll go with the Captain that it's real since he's studying these. Assuming real, looks cleaned and retoned. AU details holder.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That color looks off - like it had a mild acid bath at some point. Something not right with it - keep us posted as to the results, but don't be surprised if it comes back with a cleaned details grade...

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • DollarAfterDollarDollarAfterDollar Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My first thought was counterfeit but CaptHenway knows 1000 times more than I do about them so I'll concur. I have a Die Pair 1 in VG 10 that has more definition on the reverse. That's why I was suspicious.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • RedCopperRedCopper Posts: 114 ✭✭✭

    All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
    before you comment

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 22,423 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedCopper said:
    All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
    before you comment

    And the link for us not penny collectors?

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I know some of the experts are saying it's real, but damn that coin just doesnt look right to me.

    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
    HAPPY COLLECTING


  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @RedCopper said:
    All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
    before you comment

    Most are commenting on the color and look of the surfaces not everyone is calling it a fake. As a life long Lincoln collector this is one of the dates that I have largely ignored as I consider it to be an error rather than a regular mint issue, thus I don't think it should be part of the regular issue Lincoln date set. And because of that I have not really studied the 22 no d very closely, however it seems to be missing one of the markers for a weak rev die pair 3. I would expect the "O" of one to be more degraded and blended into the field than it is for this coin; especially as this coin appears to be a late die state.

    Anyway it will be interesting to see what PCGS has to say on it.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The only thing off for it as a Die Pair #3 is the weak rim on the right side of the obverse. None of my DP#3's show that. This may be the result of a slightly thin, or perhaps tapered thin, planchet. I hope it gets weighed before it gets entombed.

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AUandAG said:

    @RedCopper said:
    All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
    before you comment

    And the link for us not penny collectors?

    bob :)

    lincolncentresource.com/1922Ddievarieties.html

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • RedCopperRedCopper Posts: 114 ✭✭✭

    Based on diagnostics of this coin
    I would say it’s counterfeit

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 29,066 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020 5:59AM

    @CaptHenway said:

    @amwldcoin said:
    If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

    Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

    It is not counterfeit.

    How do you know? It doesn't look at all right to me. There are elements on the obverse that are much to too sharp to be "1922 no D" like the date, the "LIBERTY" and details on Lincoln's face and coat. The piece also has the "Chinese look" with respect to color.

    Let me put this way. If I were still a dealer I would not buy it raw for certification, as I did with some 1877, 1909-S and 1909-S-VDB cents, because my brain tells me it's a counterfeit.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We shall see what we shall see.

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 22, 2020 11:21AM

    Real or Fake ???

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 28,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice. I would buy either one of them raw. The slabbing ruins it for me for die variety work.

    Can you please email me these pictures for possible use in my book?

    Winner of the ANA's 2020 Heath Literary Award, Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Award, and Lifetime Achievement Award. Winner NLG 2020 Best Numismatic Feature Article, U.S.
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin is not fake. But the original posters rev pic makes it look like damaged or a planchet flaw in the right top. Of course it may just be the photograph. It will be fun to see how this grades out. I wish you good luck.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just curious what ever happened with this coin? Did it grade?

    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
    HAPPY COLLECTING


  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 6,460 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seems the op forgot all about this.

    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 24,814 ✭✭✭✭✭

    maybe the graders are still arguing over it

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Not to derail the thread but is Ira Stein still around?

  • COINS MAKE CENTSCOINS MAKE CENTS Posts: 1,482 ✭✭✭✭✭
    New inventory added daily at Coins Make Cents
    HAPPY COLLECTING


  • ilmcoinsilmcoins Posts: 368 ✭✭✭

    Sorry PCGS MS63RB

    Started off at ANACS and they gave it a MS64RB....it lost a point on crossover

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 3,567 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ilmcoins said:

    Sorry PCGS MS63RB

    Started off at ANACS and they gave it a MS64RB....it lost a point on crossover

    Thanks ilmcoins. Sorry it lost a point, but error coins like this are a tough coin for me to guess the grade on anyway. Congrats that it transferred.
    Jim


    No one has ever had a plan to lose money in numismatics, monies lost is a result of not having a plan.

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,004 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats, very nice.
    Did the coin need conservation or did it slab as submitted ?

    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would be happy with that grade.

    WS

    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • ilmcoinsilmcoins Posts: 368 ✭✭✭

    @JRocco said:
    Congrats, very nice.
    Did the coin need conservation or did it slab as submitted ?

    I did a bulk submittal to ANACS and checked the box allowing them to conserve... not sure if anything was done.

  • ilmcoinsilmcoins Posts: 368 ✭✭✭

    @ilmcoins said:

    @JRocco said:
    Congrats, very nice.
    Did the coin need conservation or did it slab as submitted ?

    I did a bulk submittal to ANACS and checked the box allowing them to conserve... not sure if anything was done.

    No conservation at PCGS

  • seanqseanq Posts: 7,884 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You did great getting that into a straight graded holder, and I undershot the grade by a full ten points. This is why I am not a coin dealer.

    Sean Reynolds

    Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.

    "Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
  • ifthevamzarockinifthevamzarockin Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congrats! :)
    The Trueviews look nice and show a different color to the coin than the first photos you posted.
    It doesn't have that flat pink look anymore. ;)

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 8,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Your pictures sure didn't do that coin justice. I do see it is a weak D. Congratulations none the less!

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