1922 No D Lincoln Grade

ilmcoins · July 20, 2020 12:11PM

How do you think he will do at PCGS grade wise? Sending in with a group this week. I am not sure what is on it so I will likely add the conservation.

CaptHenway · July 20, 2020 12:26PM

I am guessing MS-62 RB, but this is one of the hardest U.S. coins to grade and anything is possible.

I am writing a book about 1922 cents of all kinds. Can I please have a set of high resolution images of this coin for possible use in it? Nice example of a Die Pair #3.

Tom DeLorey

amwldcoin · July 20, 2020 12:27PM

If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

ilmcoins · July 20, 2020 12:42PM

Those are two very different opinions thus far!

ilmcoins · July 20, 2020 12:50PM

@CaptHenway said:
I am guessing MS-62 RB, but this is one of the hardest U.S. coins to grade and anything is possible.

I am writing a book about 1922 cents of all kinds. Can I please have a set of high resolution images of this coin for possible use in it? Nice example of a Die Pair #3.

Tom DeLorey

These are the best I have for now. Will see if I can get better when it returns

CaptHenway · July 20, 2020 12:55PM

@amwldcoin said:
If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

It is not counterfeit.

CaptHenway · July 20, 2020 12:56PM

@ilmcoins said:

@CaptHenway said:
I am guessing MS-62 RB, but this is one of the hardest U.S. coins to grade and anything is possible.

I am writing a book about 1922 cents of all kinds. Can I please have a set of high resolution images of this coin for possible use in it? Nice example of a Die Pair #3.

Tom DeLorey

These are the best I have for now. Will see if I can get better when it returns

Can you please email these for my reference files?
Thanks.

CaptHenway · July 20, 2020 1:05PM

FWIW, I do not think it needs any conservation, but I may be wrong.
Can you request a TrueView on it?

amwldcoin · July 20, 2020 1:13PM

I must say I've seen a bunch of 22-P's...most certainly not as many as you, but I've never seen a strong reverse with a crap die like that before! Maybe it's the pictures, but the whole coin looks off to me.

@CaptHenway said:

@amwldcoin said:
If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

It is not counterfeit.

braddick · July 20, 2020 2:08PM

The obverse rim looks off too.
I know some of these counterfeits are getting better and perhaps this one qualifies as one of those. I mix that
general take though with CaptHenway's thoughts and thus give pause to my gut reaction. If real, the color does look
like it has been enhanced.

seanq · July 20, 2020 2:12PM

I think it's genuine but from the pics I cannot tell if the surfaces are covered in black carbon spots or nicks and gouges. If it straight grades I could see it in the AU53-55 range, but from the pics I think an AU Details holder is in your future.

Sean Reynolds

mannie gray · July 20, 2020 2:16PM

@seanq said:
I think it's genuine but from the pics I cannot tell if the surfaces are covered in black carbon spots or nicks and gouges. If it straight grades I could see it in the AU53-55 range, but from the pics I think an AU Details holder is in your future.

Sean Reynolds

I mostly agree with you but feel it will end up in an UNC details holder.

BuffaloIronTail · July 20, 2020 2:37PM

For those of you that might be mistaken: It's a die pair 3, not the strong reverse die pair 2.

Pete

coinbuf · July 20, 2020 2:40PM

A very unattractive weak rev coin that may get a details grade.

lkenefic · July 20, 2020 2:46PM

Coins like this is why I'm not a dealer! Tough error to grade in any case let alone with the carbon spots or nicks or whatever is going on with this particular piece. If you send it in, I'd be curious what our hosts have to say...

jclovescoins · July 20, 2020 2:52PM

Interesting coin. I think it is counterfeit too, but hope I am wrong!

CaptHenway · July 20, 2020 2:56PM

@BuffaloIronTail said:
For those of you that might be mistaken: It's a die pair 3, not the strong reverse die pair 2.

Pete

Yep.

ifthevamzarockin · July 20, 2020 3:07PM

Color looks off, it may just be the photo but it may have been cleaned at some point.
Genuine / Details

PTVETTER · July 20, 2020 3:16PM

It just doesn't look right to me!
Someone did something to that coin!

Jimnight · July 20, 2020 3:18PM

Doesn't look like a counterfeit ... but the color looks off.

Real nice!

johnny9434 · July 20, 2020 3:56PM

Unc. Details jmo

lusterlover · July 20, 2020 4:08PM

I'm in the camp that it looks funny, but I'll go with the Captain that it's real since he's studying these. Assuming real, looks cleaned and retoned. AU details holder.

7Jaguars · July 20, 2020 4:41PM

That color looks off - like it had a mild acid bath at some point. Something not right with it - keep us posted as to the results, but don't be surprised if it comes back with a cleaned details grade...

DollarAfterDollar · July 20, 2020 6:09PM

My first thought was counterfeit but CaptHenway knows 1000 times more than I do about them so I'll concur. I have a Die Pair 1 in VG 10 that has more definition on the reverse. That's why I was suspicious.

RedCopper · July 21, 2020 10:57AM

All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
before you comment

AUandAG · July 21, 2020 11:06AM

@RedCopper said:
All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
before you comment

And the link for us not penny collectors?

bob

COINS MAKE CENTS · July 21, 2020 5:56PM

I know some of the experts are saying it's real, but damn that coin just doesnt look right to me.

coinbuf · July 21, 2020 6:16PM

@RedCopper said:
All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
before you comment

Most are commenting on the color and look of the surfaces not everyone is calling it a fake. As a life long Lincoln collector this is one of the dates that I have largely ignored as I consider it to be an error rather than a regular mint issue, thus I don't think it should be part of the regular issue Lincoln date set. And because of that I have not really studied the 22 no d very closely, however it seems to be missing one of the markers for a weak rev die pair 3. I would expect the "O" of one to be more degraded and blended into the field than it is for this coin; especially as this coin appears to be a late die state.

Anyway it will be interesting to see what PCGS has to say on it.

CaptHenway · July 21, 2020 8:04PM

The only thing off for it as a Die Pair #3 is the weak rim on the right side of the obverse. None of my DP#3's show that. This may be the result of a slightly thin, or perhaps tapered thin, planchet. I hope it gets weighed before it gets entombed.

coinbuf · July 21, 2020 8:36PM

@AUandAG said:

@RedCopper said:
All you guys need to study die characteristics for the 3 dies
before you comment

And the link for us not penny collectors?

bob

lincolncentresource.com/1922Ddievarieties.html

RedCopper · July 22, 2020 5:20AM

Based on diagnostics of this coin
I would say it’s counterfeit

BillJones · July 22, 2020 6:58AM

@CaptHenway said:

@amwldcoin said:
If that is real it is a weak reverse that has been molested and will not grade problem free.

Edit to add I think it's counterfeit.

It is not counterfeit.

How do you know? It doesn't look at all right to me. There are elements on the obverse that are much to too sharp to be "1922 no D" like the date, the "LIBERTY" and details on Lincoln's face and coat. The piece also has the "Chinese look" with respect to color.

Let me put this way. If I were still a dealer I would not buy it raw for certification, as I did with some 1877, 1909-S and 1909-S-VDB cents, because my brain tells me it's a counterfeit.

CaptHenway · July 22, 2020 7:11AM

We shall see what we shall see.

ifthevamzarockin · July 22, 2020 7:39AM

Real or Fake ???

CaptHenway · July 22, 2020 9:04AM

Very nice. I would buy either one of them raw. The slabbing ruins it for me for die variety work.

Can you please email me these pictures for possible use in my book?

WaterSport · July 22, 2020 9:36AM

The coin is not fake. But the original posters rev pic makes it look like damaged or a planchet flaw in the right top. Of course it may just be the photograph. It will be fun to see how this grades out. I wish you good luck.

WS

COINS MAKE CENTS · November 22, 2020 11:59AM

Just curious what ever happened with this coin? Did it grade?

coinbuf · November 22, 2020 4:17PM

Seems the op forgot all about this.

MsMorrisine · November 22, 2020 4:24PM

maybe the graders are still arguing over it

ELVIS1 · November 22, 2020 4:44PM

Not to derail the thread but is Ira Stein still around?

COINS MAKE CENTS · November 22, 2020 6:34PM

@ilmcoins

ilmcoins · November 23, 2020 2:24PM

Sorry PCGS MS63RB

Started off at ANACS and they gave it a MS64RB....it lost a point on crossover

jesbroken · November 23, 2020 5:29PM

@ilmcoins said:

Sorry PCGS MS63RB

Started off at ANACS and they gave it a MS64RB....it lost a point on crossover

Thanks ilmcoins. Sorry it lost a point, but error coins like this are a tough coin for me to guess the grade on anyway. Congrats that it transferred.
Jim

JRocco · November 23, 2020 5:44PM

Congrats, very nice.
Did the coin need conservation or did it slab as submitted ?

WaterSport · November 23, 2020 5:50PM

I would be happy with that grade.

WS

ilmcoins · November 23, 2020 6:27PM

@JRocco said:
Congrats, very nice.
Did the coin need conservation or did it slab as submitted ?

I did a bulk submittal to ANACS and checked the box allowing them to conserve... not sure if anything was done.

ilmcoins · November 23, 2020 6:27PM

@ilmcoins said:

@JRocco said:
Congrats, very nice.
Did the coin need conservation or did it slab as submitted ?

I did a bulk submittal to ANACS and checked the box allowing them to conserve... not sure if anything was done.

No conservation at PCGS

seanq · November 23, 2020 6:30PM

You did great getting that into a straight graded holder, and I undershot the grade by a full ten points. This is why I am not a coin dealer.

Sean Reynolds

ifthevamzarockin · November 23, 2020 6:31PM

Congrats!
The Trueviews look nice and show a different color to the coin than the first photos you posted.
It doesn't have that flat pink look anymore.

amwldcoin · November 23, 2020 6:33PM

Your pictures sure didn't do that coin justice. I do see it is a weak D. Congratulations none the less!

1922 No D Lincoln Grade

Comments

Leave a Comment

Categories