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Usps precious metals theft
logger7
Posts: 8,079 ✭✭✭✭✭
Date: 7/7/20
Offense: Theft
Location of offense: CT-NY
Investigating Agency: USPS
Details:
A priority mail package was sent from a dealer in Westport, Connecticut to another
dealer in New York, NY on 7/7/2020. The package contained two 20 oz Gold
Philharmonic Coins in boxes, and one 5 oz gold Panda in a box. Upon arrival on 7/8/20 the package had been cut opened from the bottom and re-taped. Only one Philharmonic was still in the package. The following coins are missing.
Missing Coins
1988 China 5oz gold Panda
2009 20 oz Gold Philharmonic
Anyone with information contact:
Doug Davis
817-723-7231
Doug@numismaticcrimes.org
0
Comments
strange that they only took two of three very large gold coins. Inside job at USPS?
Priority is not smart unless sender had private insurance.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
It looks like they stole 2 of the 3 coins, only one arrived at its destination.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
what a pisser. hope they fire them and then send them off to jail
For an $80k sale, I would have driven it from Westport to NYC. Nice Saturday trip actually. Terrible news to hear. Hope for a positive end and items recovered.
MY GOLD TYPE SET https://pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/complete-type-sets/gold-type-set-12-piece-circulation-strikes-1839-1933/publishedset/321940
Yikes. It is always strange/fishy when partial contents arrive. You really have to have trust on both sides when that happens.
OMG, terrible news !!! 😖
Wow!
For that amount, if not driven, then I would have sent registered as it shouldn't have taken that long.
I'm guessing they have their own private insurance though, and they can all deal with it. Though, for that value, I would think that most private insurances would require double boxing and sending overnight mail
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
i bet the 2 coins were melted down immediately, i don't see a recovery of stolen goods here
Can we all agree that it was an inside job?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Now that is curious.... Why would one coin remain? Sorry, my BS antenna is raised.....Sure, maybe the 'thief' was rushed at the time of the theft...possible, not probable. Short shipment disguised as a theft? Maybe.... Cheers, RickO
If you absolutely want it to get there, not overnight, you use registered or personal delivery..
If you wanna roll the dice, use that priority mail.
This is a often recurring impatience theme here on the forum.
probably left a 20 ounce coin to keep some weight in the shipment as it traveled on to destination. Makes point of theft less obvious.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Not trying to highjack thread but could someone (even PM) how to send high valve coins to CAC? The USPS limit is $25k which isn’t even close. And no I can’t split up the packages.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/date-sets/hashtags-prefect-coin-grading-service-1879/album/7621
usps registered mail can be insured for up to $50k and is the only class of mail that will pay an insurance claim greater than $15 on anything USPS decides is bullion. Their definition of bullion remains unclear. If you need more than $50K it may be available with registered, inquire at the counter. Otherwise contact CAC for their advice, they may even provide coverage for a fee for otherwise uninsurable shipments. If they don't they might consider providing this service for a fee if their insurance carrier will permit it.
As a last resort you might consider contacting a private insurer to see if they offer a "one time" policy.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
It would had raised lot more flags with empty box?
@TurboSnail.... A totally empty box would be more in line with my expectations of a postal theft. Cheers, RickO
Not really. An inside thief knows that with a box containing some of the merchandise, the sender becomes a suspect.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
@derryb .... Valid point...Darn clever these punks.....Cheers, RickO
FedEx offers a same day delivery option: https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/same-day.html
I have never had a lost parcel with usps express.
I don't believe FedEx will insure bullion.
and someone just suffered a lost express package to CAC.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
I've heard private detectives talk about how the NCIC could be much more geared toward interdicting crime, but they are one of the few resources collectors have to report thefts except from dealing with their local law enforcement.
Ship and Insure would insure Fed Ex up to $75K:
Shipping Insurance Rates (U.S. Only)
Carrier Cost/$100 Maximum
FedEx First Overnight $0.18 $75,000.00
FedEx Ground $0.23 $20,000.00
FedEx Priority Overnight $0.18 $75,000.00
FedEx Same Day $0.22 $15,000.00
FedEx Saver $0.24 $10,000.00
FedEx Standard Overnight $0.20 $75,000.00
FedEx Two Day $0.26 $15,000.00
FedEx Freight $1.25 $75,000.00
UPS Ground $0.26 $15,000.00
UPS Next Day Air $0.24 $75,000.00
USPS Priority Express $0.22 $75,000.00
USPS Registered $0.11 $75,000.00
USPS Priority $0.28 $10,000.00
DHL Domestic $0.28 $20,000.00
https://shipandinsure.com/rates.aspx
I'm not sure what Hugh Wood's maximum coverage is.
FedEx and UPS will not honor insurance on precious metals. USPS will pay only $15 insurance on "bullion" unless it is sent registered mail. Choices are limited when trying to insure bullion.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
That's why you use private insurance, much less expensive and Hugh Wood and SI actually pay out, unlike usps which puts up a lot of roadblocks before they pay.
again, choices are limited when trying to insure bullion.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Are you then saying that the private insurer will not cover bullion items shipped with FedEx and Ups if stolen?
Always transact bullion in person, ESPECIALLY if you are the seller.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
bullion to CAC?
i'd think a new account might have some coverage limits on a single box with private insurance. I simply suggest calling around to see who would underwrite you on a single box. also, CAC may have suggestions. there is also the cac authorizedd dealer route who may already have sent single high value boxes to cac.
No, I'm saying FedEx and UPS will not cover bullion. That's two choices down, plus the ones at USPS that won't cover bullion. Choices are limited.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
At those values, how much are you willing to pay?
I don't work anymore and, if someone near me had a need, I might be willing to escort said package there and back. That said, it wouldn't be cheap (US Government cleared me with top clearance, but I understand trustworthy people might be hard to find.....using it as an example to say....maybe you could make a trip yourself if not near anyone like me you could trust?)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
If insured using registered USPS mail and then package gets lost, how does one determine the value of the items in a claim that the USPS would accept? Do they go by the amount insured?
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Filing Indemnity Claims for Loss or Damage
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
Thank you for the link. It states that a statement of value from a reputable dealer would be accepted. If someone sets up at the Long Beach, CA show on a regular basis, has a CA retail license, and has no sanctions of any kind against him or her at the time, then that would be a candidate to write such a statement.
Also, if it was a sales transaction, the ebay/paypal receipt can be used. If I sold a coin for $250 to another collector and it gets lost during shipping to that individual, all I have to do is show proof that the transaction was for that amount, fill out the necessary paperwork, and then, eventually, get reimbursed. Of course, I would have to reimburse the customer first and foremost as filing the insurance claim is the seller's responsibility.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
I've often wondered if the PCGS price guide would be acceptable USPS proof of value. Anyone ever tried to use it?
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
An awful lot of thefts going on lately.
I've had such horrible service from USPS the last 3 months that I would not even remotely consider them at any level of service. Priority Mail from CA to NY-6 working days. Priority Mail San Diego to SoCal(90 miles) -10 working days. Ground($60/11lbs) from SoCal to Topeka, KS-15 working days & no scans.
I'll never loose a coin over $100 to shipping thieves. Because anything over that can be transferred in person locally.
Use Fedex overnight with a third party insurance company.
Expensive, but you can insure anything for any amount.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Do you still have to prove value if there is a loss claim or the amount you insure is the amount you get reimbursed?
The problem with proving value is that it sets up another layer of paperwork and how does the other party know what you put into the package anyway? It's not like we go to the post office and package things in front of a postal employee. We can claim this baseball card was in this box and it got lost. The lost box can be proven when the tracking trail goes to nowhere, but how do they know what was suppose to be in it?
The PCGS Price Guide would be a nice candidate to use in a loss claim, but the USPS has the discretion. Since they clearly stated that a reputable dealer letter is acceptable, I wonder how many dealers are willing to write such a statement for someone? It's not an appraisal since the item is no longer present. It is easy to know how much a 1907 St. Gaudens in PCGS MS-64 is worth for a dealer and that is all that is being substantiated, nothing else. I cannot see how a dealer could be disadvantaged helping collectors out by giving a value of the item during a certain time period. If you are a dealer, would you help your regular customers out with this? How about a potential customer who came to you for help?
When I insured my classic vehicle, for example, the insurance company and I agreed what the value of the vehicle was and that is the insured amount. If it's ever damaged or a total loss, there is no arguing as the agreed value, which can be updated yearly, is what they go by. It makes the insurance claim process go so much easier. In the situations that I had to prove the value of the vehicle, the case dragged on for about a year, but at least I managed to get a decent amount. Don't accept the first or second offer and use supporting data.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Third party was ParcelPro.
We did have proof of cost of insurance as we were shipping $50,000 diamonds across the US, as we had an invoice from the diamond dealer.
In 5 years we had 2 claims.
It took awhile, but we were fully reimbursed in both cases.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
For that much value in gold I would've made the trip personally from NYC to CT. I live in Illinois and I would be willing to drive to across the country for that much.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
Curious why anyone mailing a package this valuable would NOT use registered mail to follow chain of possession?
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
What @BBN said.
Yes indeed. A serious problem USPS is slow to address and loathe to acknowledge.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Having to deal with this stuff in normal times sucks. Now? No thanks.
PLEASE remember USPS and couriers can now Driver/Release signature packages. We are having all our metals sent to a PO box, too, so if its postal theft ideally theres cameras enough for an investigation.
@logger7 I was a clerk for a certain package company for a few years. Stuff like this is usually done by the person loading the car. They have access go razors and tape guns and have the time and cover to do it. All the thefts investigated in our building were never the drivers or unloaders. ALWAYS the loader. Nobody else ever really had the time or opportunity.
I know you're in touch with the USPS. But someone doing this is going to continue doing it. The person who took them is likely significantly closer to the recipient than they think, and likely recognized their local address as the coin and metals place.
The recipient needs to find a way to get their packages either sorted through another facility or delivered from a different hub.
Having a package delivered to a PO Box removes the likelihood a person in this position even touches your property. Everyone else up until them is paid way too well. It's why when I was a clerk we were poor as dirt but I never took a single thing (outside of being a halfway decent person). We were incentivized to do a good honest job. People in these positions generally arent. I mean, I was literally going to bed kinda hungry some nights still putting peoples jewelry in boxes not even thinking about it.
I know you might know this stuff. But just in case posting it helps someone...