Cool chart. How relevant is the left half to any of us? For example,
My 1st job was in 1984. 90% of the "damage" to the almighty 1913 dollar was already done.
You would find that point (1984) on the chart and that becomes your 100% and then see where we are today. It appears you have lost about 50% of your purchasing power in your working career.
Those 1984-earned dollars are either spent long ago on 1984- costing goods and services, or have been invested and have (much) more than doubled.
Who earns money one year and saves cash or leaves in in savings accounts paying nearly zero interest, for 36 years??
It's a straw man argument, and an easy one to counter.
Had I bought silver bullion in 1984, and held till today? how would I have done? 😉
Better than FRNs, granted. But embarrassingly poorly vs stocks, real estate, or rare coins.
You may want to brush up on your logical arguments as well as your Econ 101. The strawman argument was yours (who earns money one year and saves cash) and your inability to apply a BLS chart showing the purchasing power of the dollar to real life is not surprising given the poor state of economic education in this country...
No, you're who brought up the current "purchasing power" of dollars that I earned long ago. I was (and am) just having an amusing conversation. Now, apparently with someone who resorts to trite ad hominem attacks when their logic and debating skills are weak.
@cohodk said:
Give him a break Baley....at least silver is still worth what it was in the early 80s. Haha
Hey, don't laugh too hard, I still have some of that silver that I bought in the 80s.
Thank goodness I was smart and prescient enough to "rescue" those particular lazy dollars from all the work they would have done quintupling or 10 bagging from being stupidly wasted in growth and income vehicles 😉
@cohodk said:
Give him a break Baley....at least silver is still worth what it was in the early 80s. Haha
Hey, don't laugh too hard, I still have some of that silver that I bought in the 80s.
Thank goodness I was smart and prescient enough to "rescue" those particular lazy dollars from all the work they would have done quintupling or 10 bagging from being stupidly wasted in growth and income vehicles 😉
I bought 2 100oz bars in 1986 for $7/oz. At the same time Microsoft went public. That $1400 in silver would be worth about $4.9 million in Microsoft shares today.
@cohodk said:
Give him a break Baley....at least silver is still worth what it was in the early 80s. Haha
Hey, don't laugh too hard, I still have some of that silver that I bought in the 80s.
Thank goodness I was smart and prescient enough to "rescue" those particular lazy dollars from all the work they would have done quintupling or 10 bagging from being stupidly wasted in growth and income vehicles 😉
I bought 2 100oz bars in 1986 for $7/oz. At the same time Microsoft went public. That $1400 in silver would be worth about $4.9 million in Microsoft shares today.
Dang!!!
How much would it be worth in Enron shares?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@cohodk said:
Give him a break Baley....at least silver is still worth what it was in the early 80s. Haha
Hey, don't laugh too hard, I still have some of that silver that I bought in the 80s.
Thank goodness I was smart and prescient enough to "rescue" those particular lazy dollars from all the work they would have done quintupling or 10 bagging from being stupidly wasted in growth and income vehicles 😉
I bought 2 100oz bars in 1986 for $7/oz. At the same time Microsoft went public. That $1400 in silver would be worth about $4.9 million in Microsoft shares today.
Dang!!!
How much would it be worth in Enron shares?
I would never have been interested in Enron so that hypothetical is meamingless to me.
Or just silver, which costs under $15 per oz to mine and refine?
Your $15, which is probably based on old data, is a good starting point. Let's keep in mind, this is an average cost. Since most silver is a by-product, there are gold and other mineral mines that their costs for silver or low. Those mines tend to be the largest producers. There are many mines, the majority of them, relying on a few hundred thousand ounces to earn a living from. Their costs per ounce are high.
Can you now add the costs to turn those 1000oz bars into blanks? Then the costs to mint those final products? What about all the costs for transportation between each step, then the steps to pack, ship to retailers, etc,,,, etc.
This isn't like driving out to the local farm and picking up some produce. And even a farmer does not sell produce to break even or lose money, regardless of the commodities market.
I just see silver as a preservation of money, nothing else. I've sold it when it seemed right, purchased back when it seemed right. As 10% or less of an investors portfolio, it serves a great hedge purpose.
So , there seems to be an argument, here on the “Precious Metals” forum, that owning gold and silver , or being a “stacker”, has been a wasted opportunity , that would have been better invested in stocks or real estate. I Get it. Thats why I have stock investments and real estate ( as most stackers most likely do). This is a precious Metals forum, and it is a bit annoying when people feel the need to point out the obvious, that Metals lag these other investments. I will still continue to place some funds into my safe haven, and thanks to my other investments, won’t take the bridge if metals drop.
@dennis1219 said:
So , there seems to be an argument, here on the “Precious Metals” forum, that owning gold and silver , or being a “stacker”, has been a wasted opportunity , that would have been better invested in stocks or real estate. I Get it. Thats why I have stock investments and real estate ( as most stackers most likely do). This is a precious Metals forum, and it is a bit annoying when people feel the need to point out the obvious, that Metals lag these other investments. I will still continue to place some funds into my safe haven, and thanks to my other investments, won’t take the bridge if metals drop.
The three amigos are an angry comedy routine who are mad that they were buying when they should have been selling and selling when they should have been buying. They just need loving attention and instruction on PM trading. Give it to them.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
For me, silver at 20 is the end of my comfort zone for buying. I’m going to try to buy another $150 face this week and then I’m watching from the sideline.
Dennis1219.....its not about silver being a worthwhile investment, stacking vehicle or insurance. Rather its about the spread of misinformation and the position of opinion as fact. The incessant "if you dont stack youre a loser" propaganda disseminated by some.
Eight years ago some of us saw the coming lost decade for PMs. Some headed warnings and some shot the messenger.
I think we see everyday what happens when truth is deemed fake and perception is considered fact.
Debate and dissention of opinion is what makes the world go round. Embrace it.
Cool chart. How relevant is the left half to any of us? For example,
My 1st job was in 1984. 90% of the "damage" to the almighty 1913 dollar was already done.
You would find that point (1984) on the chart and that becomes your 100% and then see where we are today. It appears you have lost about 50% of your purchasing power in your working career.
Those 1984-earned dollars are either spent long ago on 1984- costing goods and services, or have been invested and have (much) more than doubled.
Who earns money one year and saves cash or leaves in in savings accounts paying nearly zero interest, for 36 years??
It's a straw man argument, and an easy one to counter.
Had I bought silver bullion in 1984, and held till today? how would I have done? 😉
Better than FRNs, granted. But embarrassingly poorly vs stocks, real estate, or rare coins.
Gotta agree with that. I had a job in 1984, but it was working on small acreage, so not much. A year later, I was working at a retail place, making ~$4.50/hr.
A year after that, military, and making ~$400/mo
By 1995, I was done with the military, done with college, and making a salary of $28k/yr. Continued to go up each year after that, including up into the 6 figures. That doesn't include any investments, etc.
Sure, my income went up AND housing costs and other costs went up, but interest rates went down, inflation wasn't as high (that I noticed), etc.
The value of the dollar isn't always a straightforward graph of truth.....I agree with Baley
@OPA said:
I know this is a bullion forum....but, more of my funds are tied up in this "monster"
NASDAQ 10,718.03
+214.84
QQQ has made me tens of thousands of dollars over the last 3 months in my 401K. I'm about to jump ship in the next few weeks (or sooner depending how earnings continue to be reported) to lock in my gains.
The fed has ABSOLUTE control of the US markets these days. Buckle up for when the money printers get turned off...cause it is going to have to happen at some point. Until then, ride the wave.
Let's look at owning PMs versus a stack of cash in a safe, or having a savings account. PMs put perform these common methods of savings, so are a preservation of wealth.
@isaiah58 said:
Let's look at owning PMs versus a stack of cash in a safe, or having a savings account. PMs put perform these common methods of savings, so are a preservation of wealth.
I agree, But an adequate amount of silver "for Protection and Growth" is just so dang heavy.
@isaiah58 said:
Let's look at owning PMs versus a stack of cash in a safe, or having a savings account. PMs put perform these common methods of savings, so are a preservation of wealth.
I agree, But an adequate amount of silver "for Protection and Growth" is just so dang heavy.
That is why some stackers play the g/s ratio. For example, if silver gets down to 40 to 1 range, work a deal to trade your silver for gold. Then when it gets back above 70...80... etc start building your silver stack again. 500 ounces of silver becomes 12.5 ounces of gold. Basically doubling your value long term as the ratio never holds long.
I'd prefer to sell off silver if it broke 45, then buy back in after the bubble bursts, potentially getting 15 to 20 ounces of gold, or the same 12.5 and spread the balance out elsewhere.
Checked out of stocks on the 15th of this month with the exception of company stock options and employee stock purchase account (15% discount). Certainly left some $$$ on the table but probably just early as usual. Check!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Hello Folks, New to the silver stacking community. kind of excited watching the price climb for the first time. Been learning from ashland recently. he sent me here. pleased to meet yall
@Metalmaus1984 said:
Hello Folks, New to the silver stacking community. kind of excited watching the price climb for the first time. Been learning from ashland recently. he sent me here. pleased to meet yall
Welcome. You will have fun, your hair will grey prematurely, and as always, Metals are a part of a diverse investment portfolio.
@Metalmaus1984 said:
Hello Folks, New to the silver stacking community. kind of excited watching the price climb for the first time. Been learning from ashland recently. he sent me here. pleased to meet yall
Welcome to the forum. If you are looking to buy silver hook up with derby if he hasn't already PM'd you. He's got plenty for sale.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@Metalmaus1984 said:
Hello Folks, New to the silver stacking community. kind of excited watching the price climb for the first time. Been learning from ashland recently. he sent me here. pleased to meet yall
@Metalmaus1984 said:
Hello Folks, New to the silver stacking community. kind of excited watching the price climb for the first time. Been learning from ashland recently. he sent me here. pleased to meet yall
Welcome!
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Comments
19.81 right now.
My YouTube Channel
It's nice to see the usual late-day fade isn't holding and we are maintaining the price through the close. We may have $20 at the close this week!
I know this is a bullion forum....but, more of my funds are tied up in this "monster"
NASDAQ 10,718.03
+214.84
Five cents is back!
No, you're who brought up the current "purchasing power" of dollars that I earned long ago. I was (and am) just having an amusing conversation. Now, apparently with someone who resorts to trite ad hominem attacks when their logic and debating skills are weak.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Give him a break Baley....at least silver is still worth what it was in the early 80s. Haha
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Hey, don't laugh too hard, I still have some of that silver that I bought in the 80s.
Thank goodness I was smart and prescient enough to "rescue" those particular lazy dollars from all the work they would have done quintupling or 10 bagging from being stupidly wasted in growth and income vehicles 😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
ask is showing 19.99 but it is refusing to touch $20.00
I bought 2 100oz bars in 1986 for $7/oz. At the same time Microsoft went public. That $1400 in silver would be worth about $4.9 million in Microsoft shares today.
Dang!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
How much would it be worth in Enron shares?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I would never have been interested in Enron so that hypothetical is meamingless to me.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Your $15, which is probably based on old data, is a good starting point. Let's keep in mind, this is an average cost. Since most silver is a by-product, there are gold and other mineral mines that their costs for silver or low. Those mines tend to be the largest producers. There are many mines, the majority of them, relying on a few hundred thousand ounces to earn a living from. Their costs per ounce are high.
Can you now add the costs to turn those 1000oz bars into blanks? Then the costs to mint those final products? What about all the costs for transportation between each step, then the steps to pack, ship to retailers, etc,,,, etc.
This isn't like driving out to the local farm and picking up some produce. And even a farmer does not sell produce to break even or lose money, regardless of the commodities market.
I just see silver as a preservation of money, nothing else. I've sold it when it seemed right, purchased back when it seemed right. As 10% or less of an investors portfolio, it serves a great hedge purpose.
ask is meaningless....it's the bid price that counts.
So , there seems to be an argument, here on the “Precious Metals” forum, that owning gold and silver , or being a “stacker”, has been a wasted opportunity , that would have been better invested in stocks or real estate. I Get it. Thats why I have stock investments and real estate ( as most stackers most likely do). This is a precious Metals forum, and it is a bit annoying when people feel the need to point out the obvious, that Metals lag these other investments. I will still continue to place some funds into my safe haven, and thanks to my other investments, won’t take the bridge if metals drop.
The three amigos are an angry comedy routine who are mad that they were buying when they should have been selling and selling when they should have been buying. They just need loving attention and instruction on PM trading. Give it to them.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
For me, silver at 20 is the end of my comfort zone for buying. I’m going to try to buy another $150 face this week and then I’m watching from the sideline.
Dennis1219.....its not about silver being a worthwhile investment, stacking vehicle or insurance. Rather its about the spread of misinformation and the position of opinion as fact. The incessant "if you dont stack youre a loser" propaganda disseminated by some.
Eight years ago some of us saw the coming lost decade for PMs. Some headed warnings and some shot the messenger.
I think we see everyday what happens when truth is deemed fake and perception is considered fact.
Debate and dissention of opinion is what makes the world go round. Embrace it.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
and the ridiculed took advantage of lower prices.
Fake news is only something one does not agree with.
Embrace the name calling, ridicule and trolling as well. lol
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
You have earned my pity derryb.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I'm glad that I started buying again when I did.
(when prices were low, as derryb noted)
I knew it would happen.
Gotta agree with that. I had a job in 1984, but it was working on small acreage, so not much. A year later, I was working at a retail place, making ~$4.50/hr.
A year after that, military, and making ~$400/mo
By 1995, I was done with the military, done with college, and making a salary of $28k/yr. Continued to go up each year after that, including up into the 6 figures. That doesn't include any investments, etc.
Sure, my income went up AND housing costs and other costs went up, but interest rates went down, inflation wasn't as high (that I noticed), etc.
The value of the dollar isn't always a straightforward graph of truth.....I agree with Baley
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
20.29/ounce on the night trade
$20.54!
My YouTube Channel
It's on the move at $20.68
21
QQQ has made me tens of thousands of dollars over the last 3 months in my 401K. I'm about to jump ship in the next few weeks (or sooner depending how earnings continue to be reported) to lock in my gains.
The fed has ABSOLUTE control of the US markets these days. Buckle up for when the money printers get turned off...cause it is going to have to happen at some point. Until then, ride the wave.
It broke 21 briefly. This is getting fun.
My YouTube Channel
Let's look at owning PMs versus a stack of cash in a safe, or having a savings account. PMs put perform these common methods of savings, so are a preservation of wealth.
$21.22
up up up!
My YouTube Channel
I agree, But an adequate amount of silver "for Protection and Growth" is just so dang heavy.
MIKE B.
$21.41 up $1.48 right now.
That is why some stackers play the g/s ratio. For example, if silver gets down to 40 to 1 range, work a deal to trade your silver for gold. Then when it gets back above 70...80... etc start building your silver stack again. 500 ounces of silver becomes 12.5 ounces of gold. Basically doubling your value long term as the ratio never holds long.
I'd prefer to sell off silver if it broke 45, then buy back in after the bubble bursts, potentially getting 15 to 20 ounces of gold, or the same 12.5 and spread the balance out elsewhere.
Like the old days...
Passed 22 like a short pitstop too.
https://www.kitco.com/kcastcharts/live/silver/438_235/ag_24h_usd_oz.gif
Looks like the spoofers went into hiding and that the algorithms kicked in.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Could get interesting!
Sydney and Hong Kong gonna want their piece of the pie.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Well, I must say that you might want to diversify out of stocks a little bit, if you are in them. Just sayin'. The mood may be changing.
I knew it would happen.
Checked out of stocks on the 15th of this month with the exception of company stock options and employee stock purchase account (15% discount). Certainly left some $$$ on the table but probably just early as usual. Check!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Hello Folks, New to the silver stacking community. kind of excited watching the price climb for the first time. Been learning from ashland recently. he sent me here. pleased to meet yall
welcome
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Welcome. You will have fun, your hair will grey prematurely, and as always, Metals are a part of a diverse investment portfolio.
Welcome to the forum. If you are looking to buy silver hook up with derby if he hasn't already PM'd you. He's got plenty for sale.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Hi Maus, welcome to the forum. Be a good money manager, and you should be alright.
I knew it would happen.
Awesome! I’m glad you joined the forums.
Great to see you in here. 👍
My YouTube Channel
Welcome!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
$22.32
My YouTube Channel
Just balance your assets according to your acceptance of risk & your willingness to invest time & energy.
Silver is still cheap in relation to gold.