The 2000-W gold Sacagawea dollars

Zoins

What would it take for the US Mint to release these coins? Does there need to be an Act of Congress?

This is #5 on the PCGS Top 100 Modern Coins list:

https://www.pcgs.com/top100/coin5

This is cataloged as Judd-2190.

https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/20golsacdol.html

TurtleCat

Probably when they can get the best/highest possible price from it.

JBK

Yes, as far as I know. They could slip it into another bill.

If they had been one of the authorized weights and denominations under the gold bullion acts they would have slid by (I believe the Treasury Sec has he authority to set designs for bullion gold).

ricko

What is the quantity of these coins? Or does anyone know that for sure.....Sure would like to get one. Cheers, RickO

Jimnight

Yes, I believe It would take an act from Congress to mint and release that coin.

TurtleCat

What was the point of making them and putting them in the space shuttle if not to sell them? Would be a waste of time and resources otherwise.

Zoins

@ricko said:
What is the quantity of these coins? Or does anyone know that for sure.....Sure would like to get one. Cheers, RickO

39 were struck and 27 were melted with 12 remaining in Fort Knox. They could at least move them to the Smithsonian.

Zoins

@TurtleCat said:
What was the point of making them and putting them in the space shuttle if not to sell them? Would be a waste of time and resources otherwise.

There was an intent to sell them but only later did they find out they may not have Congressional authorization.

ifthevamzarockin

"39 were struck and 27 were melted with 12 remaining in Fort Knox."

Oh yeah....then how did I get one in a box of Cherrios?

P0CKETCHANGE

W coin struck at Philadelphia?

cameonut2011

I’ve always found the issue fascinating, and it is one of the few moderns I would be interested in owning long term if one ever surfaced for sale within my price range.

Zoins

@P0CKETCHANGE said:
W coin struck at Philadelphia?

Yes. The following is from PCGS:

The 2000-W Sacagawea 22kt Gold Dollars were struck at the Philadelphia Mint. However, the coins carry a W mint mark instead of a P mint mark, or no mint mark at all, since the coins were originally intended to be struck at the West Point Mint, located in New York.

https://www.pcgs.com/top100/coin5

CaptHenway

A bit of history. In 2005 (IIRC) Paul Gilkes of Coin World blasted pictures of these out of the Mint using the Freedom of Information Act. When I saw the pictures in Coin World, I recognized the tail feather configuration as being what I saw on a prototype Sacagawea dollar in Chicago in October of 1999. For years the Mint had been lying to me and denying that there was ever a different tail feather configuration than what was released in January of 2000, but I knew there was a difference.

When I saw the gold strikes with the other tail configuration, and read that they had been struck on May of 1999, I began wondering what else had been struck in 1999 besides the gold pieces and the prototype I saw in Chicago. I remembered the Cheerios dollars packaged and on store shelves on January 1, 2000, so they had to have been struck in 1999. I spread the word to keep an eye out for a Cheerios dollar with a different reverse, and eventually one of the TPG's sent me a picture of one. It had the 1999 Reverse.

Dollar2007

@CaptHenway said:
A bit of history. In 2005 (IIRC) Paul Gilkes of Coin World blasted pictures of these out of the Mint using the Freedom of Information Act. When I saw the pictures in Coin World, I recognized the tail feather configuration as being what I saw on a prototype Sacagawea dollar in Chicago in October of 1999. For years the Mint had been lying to me and denying that there was ever a different tail feather configuration than what was released in January of 2000, but I knew there was a difference.

When I saw the gold strikes with the other tail configuration, and read that they had been struck on May of 1999, I began wondering what else had been struck in 1999 besides the gold pieces and the prototype I saw in Chicago. I remembered the Cheerios dollars packaged and on store shelves on January 1, 2000, so they had to have been struck in 1999. I spread the word to keep an eye out for a Cheerios dollar with a different reverse, and eventually one of the TPG's sent me a picture of one. It had the 1999 Reverse.

I found your comment after searching for posts on the 2000 W Sacagawea’s after coming across an old documentary. I always liked the Inside the US Mint documentary from late 1999, early 2000 and couldn’t find it anywhere, anyway I found it on YouTube last night and it has lots of video of the golden dollar. The entire documentary is worth a watch, but starting at 14:35 you can see Tom D Rogers working on a plaster of the reverse with the extra tail feathers. At about 16:39 they are very visible when making the hub. I believe they are making the dies for the 2000 W dollars here.

But then at about 24:30 there is a non proof 2000 S dollar shown. The non proof 2000 S was also used in early promotional photos of the coin but I always assumed it was just a mock-up, but this looks like it was an actual struck coin. Do you have any info on this coin?

Here’s the link to the show: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fxGiuSXuwSQ

LanceNewmanOCC

@Dollar2007 said:

.
i'm not up for a 45 min video on this subject just now but i will watch this later. thanks!

Dollar2007

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@Dollar2007 said:

.
i'm not up for a 45 min video on this subject just now but i will watch this later. thanks!

Yeah not all of it is on the dollar, but I think it’s a good program. They don’t make shows like their anymore, especially on the Discovery Channel. They touch on the quarters, making coins in general, the transition to the euro, and the Royal Canadian Mints gold program.

CaptHenway

Will watch it tomorrow.

CaptHenway

@Dollar2007 said:

@CaptHenway said:
A bit of history. In 2005 (IIRC) Paul Gilkes of Coin World blasted pictures of these out of the Mint using the Freedom of Information Act. When I saw the pictures in Coin World, I recognized the tail feather configuration as being what I saw on a prototype Sacagawea dollar in Chicago in October of 1999. For years the Mint had been lying to me and denying that there was ever a different tail feather configuration than what was released in January of 2000, but I knew there was a difference.

When I saw the gold strikes with the other tail configuration, and read that they had been struck on May of 1999, I began wondering what else had been struck in 1999 besides the gold pieces and the prototype I saw in Chicago. I remembered the Cheerios dollars packaged and on store shelves on January 1, 2000, so they had to have been struck in 1999. I spread the word to keep an eye out for a Cheerios dollar with a different reverse, and eventually one of the TPG's sent me a picture of one. It had the 1999 Reverse.

I found your comment after searching for posts on the 2000 W Sacagawea’s after coming across an old documentary. I always liked the Inside the US Mint documentary from late 1999, early 2000 and couldn’t find it anywhere, anyway I found it on YouTube last night and it has lots of video of the golden dollar. The entire documentary is worth a watch, but starting at 14:35 you can see Tom D Rogers working on a plaster of the reverse with the extra tail feathers. At about 16:39 they are very visible when making the hub. I believe they are making the dies for the 2000 W dollars here.

But then at about 24:30 there is a non proof 2000 S dollar shown. The non proof 2000 S was also used in early promotional photos of the coin but I always assumed it was just a mock-up, but this looks like it was an actual struck coin. Do you have any info on this coin?

Here’s the link to the show: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fxGiuSXuwSQ

Well spotted. I agree that that is a business strike 2000-S. I would guess that it was made for promotional purposes from a die intended for Proofs that had simply not been "Proofed" yet. May or may not still exist.

A comment on "Extra tail feathers." When I discussed the tail feathers with Tom Rogers face to face at a convention, he told me that when he began researching the design he found out that a normal adult bald eagle has 12 tail feathers. I have independently confirmed that with a raptor rescue center up in Alaska.

He says that every version of his design has 12 tail feathers. He is the artist, so his word is final. The most prominent tail feather, the one not overlapped by other feathers, had a raised central "rachis" and raised angled "vanes." This is the version on the 2000-W gold strikes and the 2000-P Cheerios dollars. When he decided shortly before mass production began to make the tail feathers appear white, as on a real adult bald eagle, he removed the angled vanes completely and changed the raised central rachis to a depressed line. When I saw the prototype dollar in October of 1999 I counted 12 feathers, but when I saw the regular issue coin in January of 2000 I counted the two halves of the prominent feather as two separate feathers, because of the depressed line separating them, for a total of 13 feathers. It looks like 13 feathers, but I defer to the artist on the count.

Better to say "detailed feathers" and "plain feathers," or as Coin World suggested "Reverse of 1999" and "Reverse of 2000."

TD

Dollar2007

@CaptHenway said:

@Dollar2007 said:

@CaptHenway said:
A bit of history. In 2005 (IIRC) Paul Gilkes of Coin World blasted pictures of these out of the Mint using the Freedom of Information Act. When I saw the pictures in Coin World, I recognized the tail feather configuration as being what I saw on a prototype Sacagawea dollar in Chicago in October of 1999. For years the Mint had been lying to me and denying that there was ever a different tail feather configuration than what was released in January of 2000, but I knew there was a difference.

When I saw the gold strikes with the other tail configuration, and read that they had been struck on May of 1999, I began wondering what else had been struck in 1999 besides the gold pieces and the prototype I saw in Chicago. I remembered the Cheerios dollars packaged and on store shelves on January 1, 2000, so they had to have been struck in 1999. I spread the word to keep an eye out for a Cheerios dollar with a different reverse, and eventually one of the TPG's sent me a picture of one. It had the 1999 Reverse.

I found your comment after searching for posts on the 2000 W Sacagawea’s after coming across an old documentary. I always liked the Inside the US Mint documentary from late 1999, early 2000 and couldn’t find it anywhere, anyway I found it on YouTube last night and it has lots of video of the golden dollar. The entire documentary is worth a watch, but starting at 14:35 you can see Tom D Rogers working on a plaster of the reverse with the extra tail feathers. At about 16:39 they are very visible when making the hub. I believe they are making the dies for the 2000 W dollars here.

But then at about 24:30 there is a non proof 2000 S dollar shown. The non proof 2000 S was also used in early promotional photos of the coin but I always assumed it was just a mock-up, but this looks like it was an actual struck coin. Do you have any info on this coin?

Here’s the link to the show: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fxGiuSXuwSQ

Well spotted. I agree that that is a business strike 2000-S. I would guess that it was made for promotional purposes from a die intended for Proofs that had simply not been "Proofed" yet. May or may not still exist.

A comment on "Extra tail feathers." When I discussed the tail feathers with Tom Rogers face to face at a convention, he told me that when he began researching the design he found out that a normal adult bald eagle has 12 tail feathers. I have independently confirmed that with a raptor rescue center up in Alaska.

He says that every version of his design has 12 tail feathers. He is the artist, so his word is final. The most prominent tail feather, the one not overlapped by other feathers, had a raised central "rachis" and raised angled "vanes." This is the version on the 2000-W gold strikes and the 2000-P Cheerios dollars. When he decided shortly before mass production began to make the tail feathers appear white, as on a real adult bald eagle, he removed the angled vanes completely and changed the raised central rachis to a depressed line. When I saw the prototype dollar in October of 1999 I counted 12 feathers, but when I saw the regular issue coin in January of 2000 I counted the two halves of the prominent feather as two separate feathers, because of the depressed line separating them, for a total of 13 feathers. It looks like 13 feathers, but I defer to the artist on the count.

Better to say "detailed feathers" and "plain feathers," or as Coin World suggested "Reverse of 1999" and "Reverse of 2000."

TD

Very cool. Thanks for taking a look and the info on that. This series always fascinates me. I read your articles on these and it’s all so interesting. I didn’t realize the extra detail was removed to make them look white, I assumed it was for wear on the dies or something, but I guess that doesn’t make sense since there’s much more detailed parts of the coin.

CaptHenway

You are quite welcome.

MWallace

Some info here:

smalldollars.com/dollar/page20b.html

RichieURich

Let's see, there are 12 remaining gold Sacagawea dollars. Wonder if the Mint will offer them on their website? Wouldn't that cause major problems in their online ordering system?

Rarity

Just wish the Mint would sell (to the public) a silver proof version of SAC ,no need to be gold

CaptHenway

FWIW, I have a vague recollection of seeing a picture of the proposed FIVE DOLLARS reverse for the gold strikings in a magazine illustration somewhere back in 1999 or 2000, but it may have been just an altered photo.