Masonic Penny Catalog

WillieBoyd2

This is one of my favorite Masonic pennies:

Masonic Penny Berkeley California - Berkeley Chapter 92
Bronze, 31 mm, 9.15 gm
Obverse:
University of California Greek Theatre
BERKELEY CHAPTER No. 92 R.A.M. / CALIFORNIA
Reverse:
HTWSSTKS emblem
CHARTERED APRIL 18, 1906 / ONE PENNY

The HTWSSTKS emblem is an acronym for "Hiram of Tyre, Widow's Son, Sent To King Solomon".

This penny was made specifically for this lodge as it has a local landmark on the obverse.

The Berkeley chapter was chartered at a state meeting held in San Francisco on the charter date.
It was an interesting meeting.

The chapter has disbanded.

coinsarefun

Are these hub dies? Who owns them?

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@haw68 said:
These are two examples of custom designs manufactured by Thomas Parry's Sons Company (Camden, NJ). My estimate is only 2-3% of U.S. chapter pennies are custom designs. Canadian and other foreign chapters were far more likely to have custom designs.

ZoidMeister

@haw68 owns them.

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@coinsarefun said:
Are these hub dies? Who owns them?

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@haw68 said:
These are two examples of custom designs manufactured by Thomas Parry's Sons Company (Camden, NJ). My estimate is only 2-3% of U.S. chapter pennies are custom designs. Canadian and other foreign chapters were far more likely to have custom designs.

haw68

Are these hub dies? No.

I would simply call these stamping dies. They are not hubs and they were not made from a hub. A 'hub' or 'hob' is a tool used to impress a design into a stamping die. A die used to make a die if you will. My understanding is a hub or a hob are different terms used to describe the same thing. Hub is generally used in the world or coins and numismatics and hob is used in the jewelry industry.

Most stamping dies are made from tool steel (other medals can be used) and they have a design in them used to stamp out coins, medals, tokens, insignia, buckles, badges, jewelry, or other similar metal parts. There are several methods used to put the design in the stamping die. Examples include:

1. Most dies made today have the design cut in with a CNC. Once a design is saved in a computer a new die can be made identical to the original with relative ease.
2. The design can be hand-engraved into the steel dies. This requires highly skilled artisans and can take a very long time. One article I have says it took Anthony C. Paquet 7 months to carve a set (observe & reverse) of dies and he was paid $2,200 in 1864. If a die breaks before finishing a job you start over hand-engraving a new die. . .
3. The design can be pressed into a die using a hub (hob). A hub is used only when manufacturing items in larger quantities when a stamping die is likely to break before completing a production run (i.e. U.S. Mint making coins). Making a hub adds time and costs to making the first stamping die. Additional stamping dies can be produced from the hub quickly and inexpensively. A design in a stamping die is always in reverse of the object it produces while a hub is not in reverse.
4. Designs can be cut into dies using a pantograph. Companies like Medallic Art Company would make dies by having an artist sculpt a design in plaster. The plaster model was used to make a metal galvano. The galvano was then mounted in a Janvier reducing machine (pantograph) which reduced the design to the desired size and cut it into a die. This same process could be used to make a hub which then made several dies.

My favorite dies are ones that were hand-engraved and have the name of the engraver on the die with good subject matter and provenance. I view hand-engraved dies as original works of art that were crafted by highly skilled artists. I think they are often overlooked, misunderstood, and undervalued. I've seen some dies sell for less than the items they produced. I view this like a poster copy of a Picasso selling for more than the hand drawn original. I don't collect coins, medals, badges, or insignia. . . I collect the dies that made these items.

coinsarefun

The reason I asked one is very reminiscent of a so called slug, not mine but wish it was

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And this is the matches your die. I was also told that there is a proof version of mine which
Is more expensive but the MS examples are rarer. Have you heard this?
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And I totally agree on hand carved dies they are works of art and to me worth more than the tokens/coins/or medals that
we’re struck from them.

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Edit to add I’ve read there are 2 versions og the inside letters running clockwise and counterclockwise.
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@haw68 said:
Are these hub dies? No.

I would simply call these stamping dies. They are not hubs and they were not made from a hub. A 'hub' or 'hob' is a tool used to impress a design into a stamping die. A die used to make a die if you will. My understanding is a hub or a hob are different terms used to describe the same thing. Hub is generally used in the world or coins and numismatics and hob is used in the jewelry industry.

Most stamping dies are made from tool steel (other medals can be used) and they have a design in them used to stamp out coins, medals, tokens, insignia, buckles, badges, jewelry, or other similar metal parts. There are several methods used to put the design in the stamping die. Examples include:

1. Most dies made today have the design cut in with a CNC. Once a design is saved in a computer a new die can be made identical to the original with relative ease.
2. The design can be hand-engraved into the steel dies. This requires highly skilled artisans and can take a very long time. One article I have says it took Anthony C. Paquet 7 months to carve a set (observe & reverse) of dies and he was paid $2,200 in 1864. If a die breaks before finishing a job you start over hand-engraving a new die. . .
3. The design can be pressed into a die using a hub (hob). A hub is used only when manufacturing items in larger quantities when a stamping die is likely to break before completing a production run (i.e. U.S. Mint making coins). Making a hub adds time and costs to making the first stamping die. Additional stamping dies can be produced from the hub quickly and inexpensively. A design in a stamping die is always in reverse of the object it produces while a hub is not in reverse.
4. Designs can be cut into dies using a pantograph. Companies like Medallic Art Company would make dies by having an artist sculpt a design in plaster. The plaster model was used to make a metal galvano. The galvano was then mounted in a Janvier reducing machine (pantograph) which reduced the design to the desired size and cut it into a die. This same process could be used to make a hub which then made several dies.

My favorite dies are ones that were hand-engraved and have the name of the engraver on the die with good subject matter and provenance. I view hand-engraved dies as original works of art that were crafted by highly skilled artists. I think they are often overlooked, misunderstood, and undervalued. I've seen some dies sell for less than the items they produced. I view this like a poster copy of a Picasso selling for more than the hand drawn original. I don't collect coins, medals, badges, or insignia. . . I collect the dies that made these items.

haw68

@coinsarefun said:

And this is the matches your die. I was also told that there is a proof version of mine which
Is more expensive but the MS examples are rarer. Have you heard this?

Sorry, I have no information to assist with this.

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Edit to add I’ve read there are 2 versions of the inside letters running clockwise and counterclockwise.
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You are correct. These were initially produced with H S K T S S W T in the center of the reverse die in error. This die was reworked to have the letters in the proper order: H T W S S T K S.

I was told by a die engraver that an error like this could be corrected by first annealing the die to 'soften' the steel. They would then use a punch to peen the steel around the wrong letters and fill them in as much as possible. Next they would stamp the correct letters. Stamping the correct letter over the wrong one will usually displace enough metal to fill in the wrong letter. The top of the die would then be honed to make sure the surface is flat. Finally, they would heat treat the die to harden the steel again.

Below is a picture of the reverse die from Thomas Parry's Sons Company used for the California Chapter NO 5 Masonic Pennies. I reversed the picture so the image looks like the Penny it produced. While I'm not sure if there were ever any Proof coins made with these dies I'm pretty confident someone received pennies with evidence of die cracks in them. Also attached is a close up view of the letters that were reworked. . . Enjoy!

ZoidMeister

I hastily photographed a few more I don't believe I have posted. Regrets for the focus and exposure issues.

The unique and interesting pieces are first. The plain, generic last. Something about each of these called out to me to bring it home.

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ZoidMeister

ZoidMeister

jesbroken

I have a few. I'll round them up. Found two.
Jim

haw68

Jim - The design with the sun & scales was also used by Woodmen of the World (another fraternal organization). The image below is from a M. C. Lilley & Co catalog c1895:

ZoidMeister

Did someone mention "Woodmen" . . . . . ?

One of mine has the inscription "Coin Test" on it.

I've been thinking that references a test of the dies, but now I am thinking it has a higher altruistic intent . . . . . .

Z
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@haw68 said:
Jim - The design with the sun & scales was also used by Woodmen of the World (another fraternal organization). The image below is from a M. C. Lilley & Co catalog c1895:

JRTstacker

@haw68 said:

@Boosibri said:
Yes< from Henderson Ames / Lilley and came from the Lilley archives. I have maybe 20 of them. Henderson Ames was located in my hometown of Kalamazoo. Most of what I have is from Southwest Michigan though still missing Kalamazoo, my holy grail of Masonic dies.

BOOSIBRI - Your Stone Mountain die was made by the M C Lilley & Company in 1918. Starting in 1903 Lilley put a serial number on the dies they made. They started with serial number 1000 and with each die they made the serial number increased sequentially. Your Stone Mountain die is serial number 3374. Most of Lilley's dies made after 1903 have a serial number stamped on the side or top of the die, but I don't see it in your pictures of this die. I own what remains of Lilley's company archives and have their inventory record books for Masonic Penny dies.

The M C Lilley & Company changed their name to The Lilley Company in January, 1922, then in December, 1932 they became The Lilley-Ames Company when they merged with Henderson-Ames. Most of Henderson-Ames assets were moved from Kalamazoo, MI to Lilley in Columbus, OH in early 1933. In 1951 Lilley's assets were acquired by and moved to The C E Ward Company of New London, OH. Ward's assets eventually ended up in the hands of Fraternal Supplies, Inc which remained in business until 2012. Fraternal Supplies was the successor company to over 20 other companies which cumulatively were in business for over 1,000 years. My best estimate is there were nearly 10,000 stamping dies in the Fraternal Supplies collection with over 3,500 of them for Masonic Pennies.

I have Henderson-Ames' original die for the Kalamazoo chapter here.

I own the company archives and can help with the provenance for Masonic Penny dies (and other artifacts) from Lilley, Henderson-Ames, C. E. Ward, Thomas Parry's Sons, E. A. Armstrong Mfg Company and many other companies.

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Hey @haw68, if you don’t mind me asking, how did you come to acquire the archives? Was it through a liquidation sale or did you know someone at the company?

ZoidMeister

A couple recent acquisitions.

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ZoidMeister

I wish they were all this purdy . . . . . . .

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ksammut

I just purchased a large collection of Masonic Penny Tokens and have begun listing them on eBay. Should have a thousand of them posted by the end of August.

Keeping a number of them for myself as I really enjoy the designs.