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Elongated Coins - Columbian Expo

jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

I had posted my elongated large cent recently. It just arrived. I still love it.

While talking to @SiriusBlack via PM, I did a little internet search and discovered this old NY Times Article on elongated cents.

https://nytimes.com/1981/11/15/arts/numismatics-elongated-coins.html

Kind of interesting. I learned 2 things:

  1. The Columbian Expo was the 1st place in the U.S. to make elongated cents.
  2. There is actually an elongated 1893 dollar out there somewhere!

Comments

  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok that Bust half is pretty awesome! 😲

    btw, your second link has a typo error

    Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SiriusBlack said:
    Ok that Bust half is pretty awesome! 😲

    btw, your second link has a typo error

    weird. Thanks.

    There's also some Canada large cents rolled that I found. A very neat 20 cent piece.

    Apparently they could manually adjust the rollers, so they could roll anything! Supposedly they also rolled some gold coins, but I haven't found any photos.

  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I haven’t been able to figure out if it was done there at a booth or after the fact but there are also love tokens / pins / brooches made using the commemorative halves.

    Now a gold elongated would be pretty killer to see too!

    Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Several $5 gold are known and I think I remember hearing about a $10, I've seen every other U.S. $1 silver and under, bust and later, with the exception of a 3c silver and a bust half dime struck from original dies. You have to know your dies as the Martin & Dow -2d and -4a are regarded as open dies and odd denomination issues from these dies are highly suspect. I have seen one 3c nickel attempt but it was impossible to tell which die was used so that one is a ? as well. World coins from Canada and mostly European countries were also rolled including thalers, half crowns, Canada 50c and many minor copper coins. In most cases the customer supplied the coin but the operator also had supplies of current date nickels and cents on hand for mementos (at least at the 1901 and 1904 Expos ). Somewhere around here I have an elongated 1885 Liberty 5c from the WCE.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro said:
    Several $5 gold are known and I think I remember hearing about a $10, I've seen every other U.S. $1 silver and under, bust and later, with the exception of a 3c silver and a bust half dime struck from original dies. You have to know your dies as the Martin & Dow -2d and -4a are regarded as open dies and odd denomination issues from these dies are highly suspect. I have seen one 3c nickel attempt but it was impossible to tell which die was used so that one is a ? as well. World coins from Canada and mostly European countries were also rolled including thalers, half crowns, Canada 50c and many minor copper coins. In most cases the customer supplied the coin but the operator also had supplies of current date nickels and cents on hand for mementos (at least at the 1901 and 1904 Expos ). Somewhere around here I have an elongated 1885 Liberty 5c from the WCE.

    Great information. Thanks.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro said:
    The 1885 LibNick must be in the bank but here's a WCE-1b on a France 2 Franc, KM-743 (1831-1848):


    LOVE it.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @SiriusBlack said:
    I haven’t been able to figure out if it was done there at a booth or after the fact but there are also love tokens / pins / brooches made using the commemorative halves.

    Now a gold elongated would be pretty killer to see too!

    I suspect that some of the brooches and other jewelry pieces were available at the fair; I 'm less certain about the fancy love tokens and the enameled coins but the Expo ran for six months and the vendors back then were able to adapt quickly so by July or August a completely different array of souvenirs was probably available. Attendance was estimated at 27 million so I'm sure a lot of product was sold, a lot was broken or lost or thrown away and a surprising amount has survived to this day.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro said:

    @SiriusBlack said:
    I haven’t been able to figure out if it was done there at a booth or after the fact but there are also love tokens / pins / brooches made using the commemorative halves.

    Now a gold elongated would be pretty killer to see too!

    I suspect that some of the brooches and other jewelry pieces were available at the fair; I 'm less certain about the fancy love tokens and the enameled coins but the Expo ran for six months and the vendors back then were able to adapt quickly so by July or August a completely different array of souvenirs was probably available. Attendance was estimated at 27 million so I'm sure a lot of product was sold, a lot was broken or lost or thrown away and a surprising amount has survived to this day.

    Yes. The reason it is my favorite fair is the sheer volume of collectible knick knacks available.

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cool. I wonder if any of the roller dies are still around.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    None from the Columbian Exposition... But I have this one from the LordMarcovan Exposition.... :D Cheers, RickO

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ooooops... Here is the reverse...Cheers, RickO

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They're pretty neat

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coinJP said:
    Cool. I wonder if any of the roller dies are still around.

    My bad - I should have explained above that an "open die" is one that still exists and may have/has been used to roll elongateds long after the original event or date of use. There are at least three Columbian Expo dies that are suspected of having been used long after the event (opinions vary on a couple of them) which is why determining the die variety can be important. This is especially true when dealing with the wild things such as rolls on gold coins and others as mentioned above.

    There are open dies from later expositions and other events as well - these are noted in the Martin & Dow catalog "Yesterday's Elongateds" which is dated but still the standard for this field.

  • SiriusBlackSiriusBlack Posts: 1,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro Would the Yesterdays Elongateds be the best resource then? There is someone on eBay that sells Columbian Exposition restrikes, but they usually use Lincoln cents and always clearly list restrike so there’s no confusion.

    Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.

  • tokenprotokenpro Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, Yesterday's Elongateds (YE) is still the hard copy catalog of choice for the classic (pre-1963 or so) elongateds. YE is in its third printing but has not been updated since the original edition. The Elongated Collectors (TEC) have been threatening to publish an updated edition for some time but so far with no follow through. They do list unlisted types and new varieties on their web site (below) and are actively trying to add new info.

    There is a separate large catalog of modern elongateds (about 1963 to 2010 or so?). Here is the web site for TEC which contains a lot of additional information: https://tecnews.org/

  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tokenpro said:

    @coinJP said:
    Cool. I wonder if any of the roller dies are still around.

    My bad - I should have explained above that an "open die" is one that still exists and may have/has been used to roll elongateds long after the original event or date of use. There are at least three Columbian Expo dies that are suspected of having been used long after the event (opinions vary on a couple of them) which is why determining the die variety can be important. This is especially true when dealing with the wild things such as rolls on gold coins and others as mentioned above.

    There are open dies from later expositions and other events as well - these are noted in the Martin & Dow catalog "Yesterday's Elongateds" which is dated but still the standard for this field.

    Never heard the term "open die" before. Learn something new everyday.:)

  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2020 1:58AM

    1891 LibNic
    1893 Columbian Exposition

    Timbuk3
  • JedPlanchetJedPlanchet Posts: 907 ✭✭✭

    Great thread!

    Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
  • JesseKraftJesseKraft Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭✭

    An elongated Columbian Half Dollar would be awesome to see.

    Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
    Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
    American Numismatic Society
    New York City

    Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
    Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tmot99 said:
    I was a collector of 1893 medals and tokens and had an extensive collection of elongates from the Columbian Expo. I started with a US Type set and then added many foreign examples. Die #6, known as Cairo Street, is the rarest of the 6 dies. I have heard of 3 different examples of this. I owned 2 at the same time. Still own 1 of them. I have since sold the majority of that collection but kept one of each of the dies of elongates.






    NICE!

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tmot99 said:
    Here is a list of 1893 Columbian Expo elongates that I owned:

    3-Cent silver
    1825 Large Cent
    1834 Bust Quarter
    1834 Dime
    1844 Large Cent
    1847 Large Cent
    1851 Large Cent
    1853 Dime
    1855 Seated Half Dime
    1856 Dime
    1857 Eagle Cent
    1858 Eagle Cent
    1864 CN Indian Cent
    1865 2-Cent
    1866 3-Cent Nickel
    1866 Shield Nickel with Rays
    1873 Shield Nickel Without Rays
    1875 Quarter
    1876 Seated Quarter
    1883 V Nickel – no cent
    1890 Indian Head Cent
    1891 Seated Dime
    1892 Barber Dime
    1892 Barber Quarter
    1893 Liberty Nickel

    1850 Bank of Upper Canada Penny
    1854 English 10 Shilling
    1861 English Half Penny
    1870 English Penny
    1870 Spanish 10-Centimos
    1876 German 10 Pfennig
    1882 Canadian Dime
    1884 Canadian Large Cent
    1884 Canadian Quarter
    1887 Canadian Large Cent
    1891 Austrian 1 Kreuzer
    1891 Mexican 8-Reales
    1892 Mexican Un Centavo
    1893 Canadian Half Dime

    1888 Love Token
    Bread Token
    Cleveland Token
    Griesheimer Trade Token

    Really love the oddball stuff on the list. 8 reales would be awesome!

  • I have a small U.S. type set in progress based on the 1893 elongates. I just added an 1876 Liberty Seated Half.

    ANA E-1059458
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does anyone slab these?

    It would be great if PCGS did though some of these are pretty curved and may be hard to get into a slab!

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020 9:47AM

    @tmot99 said:
    I was a collector of 1893 medals and tokens and had an extensive collection of elongates from the Columbian Expo. I started with a US Type set and then added many foreign examples.

    Your collection was amazing! And your website was as well!

  • kiyotekiyote Posts: 5,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That half dollar would have been worth just under 15 bucks adjusted for inflation.. Imagine intentionally destroying $15 😵

    "I'll split the atom! I am the fifth dimension! I am the eighth wonder of the world!" -Gef the talking mongoose.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @kiyote said:
    That half dollar would have been worth just under 15 bucks adjusted for inflation.. Imagine intentionally destroying $15 😵

    I’ve done much more ;)

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Does anyone slab these?

    It would be great if PCGS did though some of these are pretty curved and may be hard to get into a slab!

    The elongated large cent that I had was slabbed by NGC, so they do them. I don't know about PCGS. All the ones that Heritage has sold that were slabbed were all NGC:

    https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?N=790+231+51&Nty=1&Ntt=elongated+Columbian&ic10=ArchiveTab-071515

  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neat thread.
    I own precisely 2 of these having just bought my second one, an 1893 Columbian Exposition elongated on an 1892-O barber quarter. My first is over a Ben Franklin CWT, a 151/430A. I was told that the CWT was scarce, but heck, I think they are all pretty scarce

    Tom

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,717 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have close to 100 of these elongated on Liberty Nickels. I have a full date run (1883 No Cent - 1893).

    I have only seen one of these (and it was out of my budget when sold on Ebay a few years ago)

    I also have a Barber Quarter and Barber Dime (both sold as nickels). All of mine are in NGC holders.

    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • Great discussion. I am a collector of anything associated with the Columbian Exposition half dollar. Although I have seen many rare examples of elongateds from the fair including gold pieces, I always wondered if there was an actual Columbian Half dollar elongate created at the fair. I searched for many years for an elusive example that was rumored to exist. I finally found my example a few years ago. It is an actual 1893 Columbian Half dollar M&D 2A variety. It has been certified by NGC. As far as I know, it is the only example on a Columbian Half host coin that exists. If you know of another, please let me know so I can correspond with the owner.

  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just seeing this. I have 2 of these elongates. the first is over an 1892 barber quarter and I would grade it au. The second I have not seen anywhere before. It is an 1893 Columbian Expo struck over a CWT- a Franklin 151/430 to be exact. Has anyone ever seen one of these?

    Tom

  • HoledandCreativeHoledandCreative Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pictures?

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