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Time to revisit auction house grading - which ones are good and not so good

This hasn't been discussed for a while and may be of benefit to others.

While there are a lot of variables - some auction houses seem to be a little more conservative and accurate in their grading as opposed to other who tend to be a bit more liberal. Have you found that some auctions house are better in this respect than others? If so, list the good and not so good.

Comments

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,228 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Domestic or foreign? The worst for me has been Warwick and Warwick in England - I've had to send back coins cross-Atlantic & finally gave up on them. London Coin auctions not only does NOT have online bidding, but has had in the past some suspicious run-ups to maximum bid levels on most all lots. Some of the major auction houses over there have serious surprise charges for shipping, credit card, handling etc. I have won bids at 220 pounds and get the coin for a net of 292 pounds, even worse on some larger purchases.
    This is not such of a problem as has been pointed out in other posts if you calculate ahead of time and bid accordingly.
    Gradingwise, most of the houses such as Baldwin's St. James are generally conservative - although they occasionally have issues - bought an 1839 proof half sov that had filed edges and not described as such. I also bought a couple of coins at Spink that had all been cleaned and none mentioned as such - that was a disappointment as a couple were scarcer such as high grade 1863 sixpence and 1827 shilling. London Coin Auctions also occasionally miss out on similar issues.....
    The old Stacks used to have max bid issues but that does not seem to be an issue any longer. Heritage has many upcharges also, but I am nearly always pleased with them. Goldbergs similar...

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • ExbritExbrit Posts: 1,237 ✭✭✭✭

    I was thinking more foreign, but domestic is fine too. I've been the most satisfied with Baldwins of St. James and both of them before they merged. London Coins - forget it. DNW and Noble has been pretty consistent. I've been a little disappointed with Roxbury lately.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have heard good things about CNG but only bought once from them once. It was four lots from the Lissner collection which were already graded.

    I wouldn't rely on the descriptions from any auction firm if the coin is not graded. Grading standards differ from US anyway but in my experience, all of them net grade a coin if it has any defects. This is the best indication if the image does not appear to match the catalog grade.

    If I really want to buy the coin, I'll ask for a further description. Firms have been good about answering but since they don't grade to US standards, doesn't mean it will receive a numerical grade.

    I have also wondered about running bids up though can't say it happened. I have also found London Coins to be the worst at describing their coins which is why I haven't bought from them in a long time. The last time I bought from them, one of their staff described the coin over the phone and when I received it, it was harshly cleaned. To their credit, they did refund my money.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 11,841 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All the more reason to have a trusted agent viewing the coins for you.

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Boosibri said:
    All the more reason to have a trusted agent viewing the coins for you.

    I tried that once and it didn't last. I'm not a big enough spender and the source I used lost interest after the first time I used his services. I had a Latin dealer specialist review lots for me at the June 2, 2006 Heritage auction since I had never bought anywhere except dealers and eBay before. Most of the coins were already graded and if I knew then what I know now, wouldn't have bothered with it.

    Now if I want the coin badly enough, I'll ask the firm directly for better images and an additional description.

  • neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Learning the different grading standards are important. I see more variability in market acceptability. Sometimes they'll call out a problem on a coin that would straight grade and the same call out verbatim would be used on a coin that wouldn't.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @neildrobertson said:
    Learning the different grading standards are important. I see more variability in market acceptability. Sometimes they'll call out a problem on a coin that would straight grade and the same call out verbatim would be used on a coin that wouldn't.

    In the coins I follow most and collect, this difference makes complete sense, except to US collectors (not singling you out). Net grading makes more sense as there is frequently nothing actually wrong with the coin other than prior cleaning. I wouldn't apply this to rim damage, corrosion, bent coins, tooling, whizzing or the like. For Spanish colonial "royals", I'd consider a holed coin "market acceptable" too, as this is the norm. It should be valued lower than the few without it but everyone already knows it.

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2020 5:25PM

    @WCC said:

    @Boosibri said:
    All the more reason to have a trusted agent viewing the coins for you.

    I tried that once and it didn't last. I'm not a big enough spender and the source I used lost interest after the first time I used his services. I had a Latin dealer specialist review lots for me at the June 2, 2006 Heritage auction since I had never bought anywhere except dealers and eBay before. Most of the coins were already graded and if I knew then what I know now, wouldn't have bothered with it.

    Now if I want the coin badly enough, I'll ask the firm directly for better images and an additional description.

    I still use the coin expert graders to view coins for me .....and pay them to do so ......even when I am there in person to view the same coins .

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • WCCWCC Posts: 2,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:

    @WCC said:

    @Boosibri said:
    All the more reason to have a trusted agent viewing the coins for you.

    I tried that once and it didn't last. I'm not a big enough spender and the source I used lost interest after the first time I used his services. I had a Latin dealer specialist review lots for me at the June 2, 2006 Heritage auction since I had never bought anywhere except dealers and eBay before. Most of the coins were already graded and if I knew then what I know now, wouldn't have bothered with it.

    Now if I want the coin badly enough, I'll ask the firm directly for better images and an additional description.

    I still use the coin expert graders to view coins for me .....and pay them to do so ......even when I am there in person to view the same coins .

    Yes, but you have a lot more valuable collection than I do. You also collect a much wider variety of coinage. For what I buy, I don't see that it makes much difference.

    If the coin is in an NGC or PCGS holder, I'll adjust how much I pay to win it but if I make up my mind to buy it, I don't care if it is overgraded. I don't agree with the grades on my primary series much of the time anyway, in both directions. Most of the time, I don't have a second coin to buy either, much less where it looks about the same as the one offered.

    The most I have ever paid for an ungraded coins is about $900, on a few occasions. I've bought "problem" coins in these instances but only paid a few hundred. I'm ok with it but also admit there are coins I haven't bought that I wanted because eventually it adds up.

    This occurs for a variety of reasons. First, I may be competing with someone else who wants it like I do but there might not be a third buyer at an equivalent price. Second, some of these coins in a "details" holder are worth more outside of the holder than in it. A "details" label substracts value instead of adding it or least it's my opinion that it does. As one example, Sedwick recently sold a 1758 Guatemala 2R described as XF+ (to my recollection). It sold for $1200 with buyer's fee. Other than adjustment marks, I didn't see anything obvious in the image but assume it would have been sold graded if they thought it would receive a numerical grade.

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