Great Toned 1968-S Kennedy Half!

Zoins · June 12, 2020 4:35PM

I ran across this during this past week. I wanted to pick this up but wasn't quick enough. I snoozed like 30 min and it was gone.

This is the second wildly toned Kennedy I missed. Hopefully the 3rd time will be the charm!

UPDATE: This now owned by John Davis and in his Mirage Collage Registry Set.

Jimnight · June 12, 2020 4:38PM

I don't care for the colors.

keyman64 · June 12, 2020 5:01PM

Neat. Here is my favorite Kennedy Half that I own.

U1chicago · June 12, 2020 5:28PM

It looks "helped" to me. I have a raw Kennedy that I like but also know is QC.

koynekwest · June 12, 2020 5:37PM

They are so different but I like 'em both!

golden · June 12, 2020 6:26PM

Not a fan at all!

joeykoins · June 12, 2020 6:31PM

In one word,"AWESOME". Love it. Congrats. dude.

bolivarshagnasty · June 12, 2020 6:41PM

Keyman’s half looks NT. The other two look heat toned to me. An ebay seller once shared that he stood the coins on edge in a cast iron skillet to get the look.

Zoins · June 12, 2020 7:02PM

@bolivarshagnasty said:
Keyman’s half looks NT. The other two look heat toned to me. An ebay seller once shared that he stood the coins on edge in a cast iron skillet to get the look.

Maybe he needs to let PCGS know. Our hosts grade the 68 at PCGS PR67.

bolivarshagnasty · June 12, 2020 8:09PM

They also straight graded these...….
EDM

and these...…..
MNSR

and these...……..
KPL

They don't catch them all.

android01 · June 12, 2020 9:26PM

Here's one of mine. This is one of the only TV's I have that I thought didn't do the coin justice. It's much more vibrant in hand. PCGS MS66+

Zoins · June 12, 2020 9:32PM

@Zoins said:
I ran across this during this past week. I wanted to pick this up but wasn't quick enough. I snoozed like 30 min and it was gone.

This is the second wildly toned Kennedy I missed. Hopefully the 3rd time will be the charm!

This now owned by John Davis and in his Mirage Collage Registry Set. Anyone know him?

Zoins · June 12, 2020 9:45PM

@bolivarshagnasty said:
They also straight graded these...….
EDM
[...]
They don't catch them all.

It might not be about catching. Heather indicated a while back PCGS knew about these and would stop grading these if proof of doctoring was provided but I'm not sure what happened after that. Is PCGS still grading these coins?

Do you think the John Davis specimen is an EDM, MNSR or KPL coin?

Swampboy · June 12, 2020 9:47PM

@Zoins said "This now owned by John Davis and in his Mirage Collage Registry Set....."

It matches the PR68 '71 quarter perfectly in that set.

bolivarshagnasty · June 13, 2020 3:44AM

"Do you think the John Davis specimen is an EDM, MNSR or KPL coin?"

I would say "other". Type of toning doesn't match the look of those three.

abcde12345 · June 13, 2020 4:15AM

Unpopular opinion: Other than the MS66+ they all look AT'ed to me.

ricko · June 13, 2020 4:17AM

They must no longer be called doctors... They are ARTISTS!! Those coins should be displayed in the Louvre in Paris. Cheers, RickO

Zoins · June 13, 2020 7:00AM

@abcde12345 said:
Unpopular opinion: Other than the MS66+ they all look AT'ed to me.

I don't know if that opinion is popular or unpopular, but it is an opinion and you are part of the "market".

I just know:

I think it looks neat
PCGS straight graded it

If enough people think it's AT, will the "market" change, and thus the PCGS position on these?

What if there was a video showing how these toned?

Has PCGS changed their opinion on specific toning before?

I remember hearing PCGS used to slab blue nickels, but then classified them as AT and stopped slabbing them because a forum member acknowledged making them. I'm not sure what the status of blue nickels is now as the ones I see tend to be straight-graded. Here's a PCGS PR69:

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/71765780

fiftysevener · June 13, 2020 7:20AM

I've seen blue nickels in pliofilm packs right out of a mint envelope.

Zoins · June 13, 2020 8:01AM

@fiftysevener said:
I've seen blue nickels in pliofilm packs right out of a mint envelope.

Just because they are in packaging doesn't necessarily mean they were stored correctly or not otherwise modified.

Do you know why they would have turned blue in the mint envelopes? I'd guess it's not through normal storage.

Here are some thoughts from a 2012 thread on blue nickels from when TeleTrade was still around. There's some speculation these storing Mint packs in sunlight can result in the blue color.

@OldEastside said:
Contarary to belief, the early 60's blues, I've seen on many occasions at many B&M's in the past, accually I would stay away from those sets as they were pretty common, as some dealers said the Nickel would react with being stored in the sunlight, who knows, but for being rare I can say I've seen thousands and I hav'nt looked at that many.

Steve

@Jinx86 said:
quite a few of those look like coins that Ive cut from mint sets, but have never sent in. My guess is the sets I had were not properly stored, who knows those could all be legit or just one or two.

@keets said:
while i have found some nicely toned coins in cello and Capital Sets i will only state what experience has taught me-----the blue monochrome Nickels are widely accepted as AT, purple on a Nickel is generally a bad sign and "glossy" is mostly to be avoided.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/865566/and-now-for-those-who-think-these-toned-nickels-are-legitimate

Kccoin · June 13, 2020 3:52PM

the toning looks accelerated

keets · June 13, 2020 4:07PM

the tone of the OP coin isn't the type I find very attractive, but it is the type I find suspicious.

Zoins · June 13, 2020 4:17PM

@keets said:
the tone of the OP coin isn't the type I find very attractive, but it is the type I find suspicious.

I haven't seen many like this which may be a reason to be suspicious, but I'm also strangely attracted to it.

I like finding PCGS approved toning with uncommon looks as it's good to see the variety of market acceptable toning out there.

This is still a bit different than say some of the toning coming out of Florida because those looks can appear on 10s or 100s of similar coins.

fiftysevener · June 14, 2020 7:23AM

@Zoins said:

@fiftysevener said:
I've seen blue nickels in pliofilm packs right out of a mint envelope.

Just because they are in packaging doesn't necessarily mean they were stored correctly or not otherwise modified.

Do you know why they would have turned blue in the mint envelopes? I'd guess it's not through normal storage.

Here are some thoughts from a 2012 thread on blue nickels from when TeleTrade was still around. There's some speculation these storing Mint packs in sunlight can result in the blue color.

@OldEastside said:
Contarary to belief, the early 60's blues, I've seen on many occasions at many B&M's in the past, accually I would stay away from those sets as they were pretty common, as some dealers said the Nickel would react with being stored in the sunlight, who knows, but for being rare I can say I've seen thousands and I hav'nt looked at that many.

Steve

@Jinx86 said:
quite a few of those look like coins that Ive cut from mint sets, but have never sent in. My guess is the sets I had were not properly stored, who knows those could all be legit or just one or two.

@keets said:
while i have found some nicely toned coins in cello and Capital Sets i will only state what experience has taught me-----the blue monochrome Nickels are widely accepted as AT, purple on a Nickel is generally a bad sign and "glossy" is mostly to be avoided.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/865566/and-now-for-those-who-think-these-toned-nickels-are-legitimate

I tend to agree with most assessments that blue nickel is not natural mostly because there are few if any in Pf 69 Ultra or Deep CAMEO that have been graded. However I don't consider one in mint envelope to be AT, just not natural tone.

keets · June 14, 2020 8:11AM

However I don't consider one in mint envelope to be AT, just not natural tone.

consider the coin pictured below, PCGS PR67. I have another with colors that look almost identical in an old, small white ANACS holder and still another in the intact Mint Cello Proof Set packaging which looks almost identical. the reasoning behind the tone is believed by some(myself included) to be the result of chemicals used to rinse the planchets or struck coins interacting with the cellophane packaging. the color results from the Sets being pressed together: where the cellophane touches the coins one color develops, the untouched areas develop a different color.

I believe all three are 1962. there are other dates I have ranging from about 1954-1964 which have varying shades of blue and pink, but they aren't "electric" like the one above. for some reason the toned coins seem to be most prevelant from 1961-1963 and they can still be found intact .

cameonut2011 · June 14, 2020 1:09PM

@Zoins said:
I ran across this during this past week. I wanted to pick this up but wasn't quick enough. I snoozed like 30 min and it was gone.

This is the second wildly toned Kennedy I missed. Hopefully the 3rd time will be the charm!

Congratulations on the “loss!” I sincerely mean that. The coin looks like an ATed mess. You dodged a bullet.

cameonut2011 · June 14, 2020 1:14PM

.> @Zoins said:

@abcde12345 said:
Unpopular opinion: Other than the MS66+ they all look AT'ed to me.

I don't know if that opinion is popular or unpopular, but it is an opinion and you are part of the "market".

I just know:

I think it looks neat

PCGS straight graded it

If enough people think it's AT, will the "market" change, and thus the PCGS position on these?

What if there was a video showing how these toned?

Has PCGS changed their opinion on specific toning before?

The fact that it is in a PCGS slab means nothing. One notorious AT artist was known for ATing coins in the PCGS slab and then sending the coins in to be True Viewed/reholdered. Unless things have changed, the people doing the unholdering and reholdering aren’t professional graders. Without existing images, they have no way to know the coin has changed. Add in high volume, and you can see how a lot of AT coins have made it into straight graded holders.

abcde12345 · June 14, 2020 1:58PM

Please don't confuse nickel coins with 40% silver coins.
That is like feeding peanuts to seals and fish to elephants.

cameonut2011 · June 14, 2020 4:31PM

@abcde12345 said:
Please don't confuse nickel coins with 40% silver coins.
That is like feeding peanuts to seals and fish to elephants.

The silver clad issues will definitely tone differently than subsequent clad issues without silver, but the toning on the OP’s coin does not look original even with silver in the alloy to me.

MFeld · June 14, 2020 4:40PM

@fiftysevener said:

@Zoins said:

@fiftysevener said:
I've seen blue nickels in pliofilm packs right out of a mint envelope.

Just because they are in packaging doesn't necessarily mean they were stored correctly or not otherwise modified.

Do you know why they would have turned blue in the mint envelopes? I'd guess it's not through normal storage.

Here are some thoughts from a 2012 thread on blue nickels from when TeleTrade was still around. There's some speculation these storing Mint packs in sunlight can result in the blue color.

@OldEastside said:
Contarary to belief, the early 60's blues, I've seen on many occasions at many B&M's in the past, accually I would stay away from those sets as they were pretty common, as some dealers said the Nickel would react with being stored in the sunlight, who knows, but for being rare I can say I've seen thousands and I hav'nt looked at that many.

Steve

@Jinx86 said:
quite a few of those look like coins that Ive cut from mint sets, but have never sent in. My guess is the sets I had were not properly stored, who knows those could all be legit or just one or two.

@keets said:
while i have found some nicely toned coins in cello and Capital Sets i will only state what experience has taught me-----the blue monochrome Nickels are widely accepted as AT, purple on a Nickel is generally a bad sign and "glossy" is mostly to be avoided.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/865566/and-now-for-those-who-think-these-toned-nickels-are-legitimate

I tend to agree with most assessments that blue nickel is not natural mostly because there are few if any in Pf 69 Ultra or Deep CAMEO that have been graded. However I don't consider one in mint envelope to be AT, just not natural tone.

The fact that few, if any have graded PF69 Deep/Ultra Cameo doesn’t sound like a sound reason to believe that “blue nickel is not natural”. It could be that the toning tends to mask the cameo effect and contrast, so the Deep/Ultra Cameo designation isn’t merited.

koynekwest · June 14, 2020 4:46PM

@cameonut2011 said:
.> @Zoins said:

@abcde12345 said:
Unpopular opinion: Other than the MS66+ they all look AT'ed to me.

I don't know if that opinion is popular or unpopular, but it is an opinion and you are part of the "market".

I just know:

I think it looks neat

PCGS straight graded it

If enough people think it's AT, will the "market" change, and thus the PCGS position on these?

What if there was a video showing how these toned?

Has PCGS changed their opinion on specific toning before?

The fact that it is in a PCGS slab means nothing. One notorious AT artist was known for ATing coins in the PCGS slab and then sending the coins in to be True Viewed/reholdered. Unless things have changed, the people doing the unholdering and reholdering aren’t professional graders. Without existing images, they have no way to know the coin has changed. Add in high volume, and you can see how a lot of AT coins have made it into straight graded holders.

He has an alter-ego that's doing the same thing. If you specifically look for toned coins on ebay, these "two" comprise at least 50% of the total listings. Is there a way to block viewing the listings?

Zoins · June 14, 2020 4:49PM

@koynekwest said:

@cameonut2011 said:

@Zoins said:

@abcde12345 said:
Unpopular opinion: Other than the MS66+ they all look AT'ed to me.

I don't know if that opinion is popular or unpopular, but it is an opinion and you are part of the "market".

I just know:

I think it looks neat

PCGS straight graded it

If enough people think it's AT, will the "market" change, and thus the PCGS position on these?

What if there was a video showing how these toned?

Has PCGS changed their opinion on specific toning before?

The fact that it is in a PCGS slab means nothing. One notorious AT artist was known for ATing coins in the PCGS slab and then sending the coins in to be True Viewed/reholdered. Unless things have changed, the people doing the unholdering and reholdering aren’t professional graders. Without existing images, they have no way to know the coin has changed. Add in high volume, and you can see how a lot of AT coins have made it into straight graded holders.

He has an alter-ego that's doing the same thing. If you specifically look for toned coins on ebay, these "two" comprise at least 50% of the total listings. Is there a way to block viewing the listings?

You can exclude via Advanced Search.

Here's a good screenshot:

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Tools-Apps/How-can-I-search-listings-and-EXCLUDE-users/td-p/24233764

koynekwest · June 14, 2020 4:51PM

Thank you, Zoins! I've been an ebay member for 22 years and have never used that option. I will henceforth.

Great Toned 1968-S Kennedy Half!

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