@keets said: All that is known about the current owner of this rare coin is that the collector is a former Wall Street executive who acquired the coin in 2015 in a private transaction for an undisclosed price, Bloomberg reported. Records show that this particular coin was sold for $625,000 in 1981, then nearly for $3 million in 2005, and for $7.4 million in 2011.
2005, 2011, 2015, 2020...........................
if this is such an important "coin" and so highly desirable, why is it that nobody seems to want to own it for very long?? I can speculate --- it is an "INVESTMENT PIECE" that is priced beyond its reasonable collector value. that means that Investors find it an attractive place to park cash, hold for a brief period and then sell at a profit. I would hope that a serious collector(maybe Hansen) would buy this and hold it where it belongs, in a top collection for an extended time. I doubt that will happen because a savvy person such as him knows the price is inflated.
it might make us all feel excited about the Collectible Coin Market to have something sell for $10 million+ until you realize that it's only an investment for some wealthy individual and not actually a collector who's buying it.
One plausible reason that collectors own it for relatively short periods is that they buy it to be part of history. They become one of the few to own it. Once that is accomplished the coin does tie up a significant amount of money and by selling it they free up the cash and become part of the provenance of a famous coin. Maybe even make some money too.
Some owners are collectors, but there are also those who buy just for the appreciation potential, like the current owner:
The current owner, a former Wall Street executive, purchased the Brasher through PCAG Inc. for an undisclosed sum in a 2015 private transaction. “He saw the coin for what it was: a huge investment,” Sherid says. “We always knew that at one point he was going to sell it—he’s not a collector, he’s an investor—and the market on ultra-rarities has been strong.”
@PerryHall said:
That's not a US minted coin. It's a privately minted coin. I'm not even sure that it's proper to call it a coin since it wasn't issued by any government entity. Perhaps it may be more accurate to call it a bullion token.
In the end, being privately minted is part of what makes this coin so attractive as it was the first gold coin minted in the US, before the US even had a Mint.
Brasher being Washington's neighbor certainly adds to the mystique.
That part of the Brasher Doubloon mystique has always bothered me. In 1787 George Washington was a private citizen living in Virginia. He was elected President in 1788 and inaugurated in the temporary Capital in New York in 1789 before moving to the next temporary Capital in Philadelphia in (I believe) 1790. By the time Brasher might have known Washington the Doubloons were old news.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
by selling it they free up the cash and become part of the provenance of a famous coin........................
he’s not a collector, he’s an investor
man, I sure am glad we cleared that up.
as I had speculated, the past owner possibly and the present owner certainly are investors who only do one thing with a "famous coin" like this, make it more impossible and less likely for a REAL COLLECTOR to own it. why isn't that clear to more people if a simpleton like me can figure it out??
Regarding collectors and investors, it should be noted that the current most expensive price realized coin is owned by a collector, our own @tradedollarnut, as is the J-1776 pattern, a contender for the most expensive coin if offered.
There are collectors and investors at every level.
with investors buying coins like this I would suspect that the price goes up until none of them are willing to "speculate" anymore because the current owner can't find a buyer at a level to satisfy his return.
Once it won't go higher due to speculation, it may go back to a collector. It will be interesting to see where this ends up and if it gets sold at this price.
@Weiss said:
Thanks, @Boosibri ! When you've only got one good piece in your collection, you have to pull it out at every opportunity!
The Met has a beautiful bowl and a lovely coffee pot by Brasher. Pretty hardcore from the standpoint of American history that it's coffee, not tea.
And the Art Institute of Chicago has a gorgeous covered urn with a near identical engraved acanthus.
But I haven't found more than maybe 10 or 12 pieces of his (excluding silverware) in my research. And no other drinking vessels of any kind.
Correction: I dug pretty deep tonight and found a lidded tankard by Brasher, thought to be in a private collection, which last sold at Christies in 1993. The pre-sale estimate was $30,000 to $40,000. It hammered at $70,000!
Here's that lidded tankard from 1993's auction shown with my beer cann:
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last. --Severian the Lame
@Weiss said:
Thanks, @Boosibri ! When you've only got one good piece in your collection, you have to pull it out at every opportunity!
The Met has a beautiful bowl and a lovely coffee pot by Brasher. Pretty hardcore from the standpoint of American history that it's coffee, not tea.
And the Art Institute of Chicago has a gorgeous covered urn with a near identical engraved acanthus.
But I haven't found more than maybe 10 or 12 pieces of his (excluding silverware) in my research. And no other drinking vessels of any kind.
Correction: I dug pretty deep tonight and found a lidded tankard by Brasher, thought to be in a private collection, which last sold at Christies in 1993. The pre-sale estimate was $30,000 to $40,000. It hammered at $70,000!
Here's that lidded tankard from 1993's auction shown with my beer cann:
Sweet!
Does anyone even have the craftsmanship and artistry to make things like this today?
This is a "tastes great" vs. "less filling" type of argument.
AU50 punch on breast or MS63 punch on wing? For me....I'm a take the much higher grade (MS 63) at a lesser price type of buyer. Though Superman or Green Lantern would probably prefer the "EB" on breast - like any super hero would.
@keets said: All that is known about the current owner of this rare coin is that the collector is a former Wall Street executive who acquired the coin in 2015 in a private transaction for an undisclosed price, Bloomberg reported. Records show that this particular coin was sold for $625,000 in 1981, then nearly for $3 million in 2005, and for $7.4 million in 2011.
2005, 2011, 2015, 2020...........................
if this is such an important "coin" and so highly desirable, why is it that nobody seems to want to own it for very long?? I can speculate --- it is an "INVESTMENT PIECE" that is priced beyond its reasonable collector value. that means that Investors find it an attractive place to park cash, hold for a brief period and then sell at a profit. I would hope that a serious collector(maybe Hansen) would buy this and hold it where it belongs, in a top collection for an extended time. I doubt that will happen because a savvy person such as him knows the price is inflated.
it might make us all feel excited about the Collectible Coin Market to have something sell for $10 million+ until you realize that it's only an investment for some wealthy individual and not actually a collector who's buying it.
One plausible reason that collectors own it for relatively short periods is that they buy it to be part of history. They become one of the few to own it. Once that is accomplished the coin does tie up a significant amount of money and by selling it they free up the cash and become part of the provenance of a famous coin. Maybe even make some money too.
Some owners are collectors, but there are also those who buy just for the appreciation potential, like the current owner:
The current owner, a former Wall Street executive, purchased the Brasher through PCAG Inc. for an undisclosed sum in a 2015 private transaction. “He saw the coin for what it was: a huge investment,” Sherid says. “We always knew that at one point he was going to sell it—he’s not a collector, he’s an investor—and the market on ultra-rarities has been strong.”
Two points.
First, my experience is that most coin investors are in the market mostly because they like coins. Sure, they want to make money, and no, they don't hold their coins forever, because that's their nature. But if they were only concerned about maximizing their ROI, most of their coin purchases would have never happened in the first place.
Second, even the purest collectors frequently sell coins from their collections. (I know I do.) For some obvious examples, think of all of the registry sets we've seen built and sold at lightning speed. Were they all owned by pure investors?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Comments
Some owners are collectors, but there are also those who buy just for the appreciation potential, like the current owner:
That part of the Brasher Doubloon mystique has always bothered me. In 1787 George Washington was a private citizen living in Virginia. He was elected President in 1788 and inaugurated in the temporary Capital in New York in 1789 before moving to the next temporary Capital in Philadelphia in (I believe) 1790. By the time Brasher might have known Washington the Doubloons were old news.
by selling it they free up the cash and become part of the provenance of a famous coin........................
he’s not a collector, he’s an investor
man, I sure am glad we cleared that up.
as I had speculated, the past owner possibly and the present owner certainly are investors who only do one thing with a "famous coin" like this, make it more impossible and less likely for a REAL COLLECTOR to own it. why isn't that clear to more people if a simpleton like me can figure it out??
Regarding collectors and investors, it should be noted that the current most expensive price realized coin is owned by a collector, our own @tradedollarnut, as is the J-1776 pattern, a contender for the most expensive coin if offered.
There are collectors and investors at every level.
with investors buying coins like this I would suspect that the price goes up until none of them are willing to "speculate" anymore because the current owner can't find a buyer at a level to satisfy his return.
Once it won't go higher due to speculation, it may go back to a collector. It will be interesting to see where this ends up and if it gets sold at this price.
Correction: I dug pretty deep tonight and found a lidded tankard by Brasher, thought to be in a private collection, which last sold at Christies in 1993. The pre-sale estimate was $30,000 to $40,000. It hammered at $70,000!
Here's that lidded tankard from 1993's auction shown with my beer cann:
--Severian the Lame
Sweet!
Does anyone even have the craftsmanship and artistry to make things like this today?
Sure, there are modern silversmiths.
--Severian the Lame
Here's the PCGS TrueView!
Thanks Phil / @PCGSPhoto!
why is it that nobody seems to want to own it for very long?
Because of the Curse!
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
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This is a "tastes great" vs. "less filling" type of argument.
AU50 punch on breast or MS63 punch on wing? For me....I'm a take the much higher grade (MS 63) at a lesser price type of buyer. Though Superman or Green Lantern would probably prefer the "EB" on breast - like any super hero would.
This. Everyone who owns this coin will eventually die.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Two points.
First, my experience is that most coin investors are in the market mostly because they like coins. Sure, they want to make money, and no, they don't hold their coins forever, because that's their nature. But if they were only concerned about maximizing their ROI, most of their coin purchases would have never happened in the first place.
Second, even the purest collectors frequently sell coins from their collections. (I know I do.) For some obvious examples, think of all of the registry sets we've seen built and sold at lightning speed. Were they all owned by pure investors?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.