1860/ 9 c pv 8 reales ....damaged or not ?
bidask
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I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
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check out the bottom of this one at 6pm on the obverse.
https://worldnumismatics.com/product/culiacan-1876-cn-cg-ngc-ms62-k_35867/
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
Jim Elliot
Cannot really tell 🙃
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
@bidask cannot tell in your pictures.
I will try to get better ones
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The first question for any 8 reales should always be can you establish that it is likely to be genuine?
Look carefully... does seem like it could be the same effect - POSSIBLY mint-caused? I want to say I've seen that before on some pieces, but can't be certain.
There's still that cut across the eagle's breast and wing which IS damage.
How is the luster/surface in hand? Hard to discern in your pics.
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Jack, do you REALLY think that's in question with this particular piece??
The OP has not given a weight so I have no idea if the weight is within tolerance even if this might be a delamination. Do you know that this particular variety of 8 reales has not ever been faked?
You know, at the point where relatively advanced collectors can't look and feel a super crusty coin such as that and actually know what you're looking at... maybe it's time to just end the hobby and put the money into serval breeding.
There's diligence... and then there's unfounded doubt.
Dan, I didn't even look at the wing. I think the bottom is ok on the obverse but I don't think the wing will grade IMO. Sorry, should have looked at all the pictures but I just scanned through them. Only one way to find out for sure though.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."
Jim Elliot
Thanks for your advice wisdom as to what
I should consider.
There are reales watchers and then there are reales buyers .
One watches the other pulls the trigger .
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Says the guy who didn't see the giant cut across the eagle on this coin........
Actually, my comment was about jgenn sounding the trumpet on always being wary about authenticity - which is absolutely good general advice, but that's just not an issue for this particular coin
Anyway, the reverse cut is probably the bigger damage issue to worry about on this piece. But regarding the edge, as I said above, I want to say I've seen something like this effect before - and the situation on that 1876 does look very similar. A file job isn't impossible, though. ncsuwolf74 has the right idea - look at other Culiacan 1860 +/- a few years for anything similar (though may be hard since rims are obscured by holders a try eBay archives, Googling, etc).
This is a 1860C CE I snagged a few years ago that I happened to dig out of a shop 'n drop pile the other day. Perhaps of relevance are the planchet flaws on the surface ("hojas" or "hojitas", not uncommon looking at other 1860C examples)... As I examine it (the pic came out just decent enough to discern it a bit), there's something almost similar going on where there's essentially a slight bit of a seam or split or fissure at the transition between the face of the coin and the edge pattern. So, perhaps this is something involving the edge pattern application impacting the planchet.
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If you look at bidask's piece in question, note that whatever is going on there kind of tapers down to continue in a reduced form as you move clockwise (I've highlighted the portion I'm referring to). This reduced area looks pretty similar to what I'm seeing on my piece...
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And is this piece something similar or just edge damage? The impacted areas are directly across from each other. COULD be some effect from being in a bezel or brooch... but could indicate some kind of push-in from the edge application. And even that were just damage, if you work clockwise down from 3 o'clock, there's obviously something odd there that certainly looks as-made:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/mexico/world-coins/mexico-republic-8-reales-1860-c-ce-ms61-pcgs-/a/231945-61351.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
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And whatever THAT effect is is very similar to what's going on here:
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/3-20ABY/mexico-culiacan-8-reales-1860-ce
Yep this coin came back uncirculated details scratch.
And I did miss on the eagle wing.
Matter of fact I submitted this coin with 19 other raw 8 reales coins.....so out of 20 raw submissions 6 came back details .
But 14 came back graded and i was happy with the results of those.
Oh well its just a hobby ...right ?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Not sure about the rim... I see the scrape on the eagle and wing as being the game changer whereby a details grade is the appropriate outcome. I will say that I love the look of the coin and the more difficult question is whether the overall look and general appeal is satisfying and outweighs the eagle scrape and the inability of the coin to obtain a straight grade.
I suspect my view on that question would be in the minority
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I do not think the rim was a cause for this coin to get details . Regardless I agree with you and the general appeal is satisfying to me and the overall look is very original.
Below is the same date but not the overdate
:
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Send it in and let us know!
Latin American Collection
I did and it came back details due to the scratch on the eagle wing
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.