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Canadian Mint Gold/Silver Maple Leafs & Anticounterfeiting Measures

For bullion coin buyers, don't Canadian maple leaf coins make the most sense due to the anticounterfeiting measures? The maple leafs have the obverse/reverse fine radial lines, the laser-engraved micro maple leaf, and the Bullion DNA registration/scanning system -- no other bullion coin employs this level of anticounterfeiting measures. (Perhaps American gold eagles will at least have a DNA-type system with the 2021 release).

That's a nice set of features for both the gold and the silver product lines. Don't you feel at least a little more secure buying maples with these features, especially gold bullion? I know I feel better buying one-ounce gold maples from 2014 through present, and silver maples from 2015 through present, because they have these anticounterfeit measures. It's got to be a lot more work for the fraudsters to try and replicate these measures (and I don't know if they can ever defeat the Canadian Mint registration system).

I'm very wary of pre-2014 gold maples because they were counterfeited, wouldn't buy them without XRF or ultrasound purity confirmation. Same is true of gold Kruggerands -- I really like the coin, its durability, the low premiums, and would like to pick some up, but the design has been around forever, making it a relatively easy coin counterfeit -- and fake Krugs definitely are circulating. Same with American gold eagles; love the coin, but the U.S. Mint really needs to step up its game in making it much more difficult to counterfeit their gold bullion coins.

Yes, most national mint one-ounce coins are orders of magnitude safer than non-Mint bars and rounds. (A lot more money to be made selling tungsten-filled 10- and 400-troy-ounce gold bars). But with gold/silver bullion coins having similar premiums worldwide, doesn't it make sense to buy the bullion coin that offers the very best anti-counterfeiting measures?

Comments

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have seen common date lincoln cents counerfeited. everything can be counterfeited.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • KliaoKliao Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you know what to look for in a fake and if you can test and verify it’s authenticity you can buy what most appeals to you.

    A Young Numismatist/collector.
    https://www.ebay.com/usr/kliao-69
    21 Positive BST transactions with 13 members and counting!

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You can put whatever measures in place you want but typically the counterfeiters are always one or two steps ahead.

  • DrBusterDrBuster Posts: 4,127 ✭✭✭✭

    How in holy hell is that user name a week old....??? Bravo

  • @DrBuster said:
    How in holy hell is that user name a week old....??? Bravo

    Was a longtime PCGS forum member, but dropped off some time ago. With the CU acquisition, I couldn't recover my account. Just so happened this name was available, which coincides nicely with a preference change from numismatics to bullion.

  • rickoricko Posts: 73,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bullion.... Welcome aboard/back....Whatever device man can develop, man can find a way to counterfeit....Yes, such measures will make it more difficult, but it will happen. Cheers, RickO

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 21,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Welcome to the forum

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wise man, Bullion, go bullion!

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 17, 2020 12:13PM

    @DrBuster said:
    How in holy hell is that user name a week old....??? Bravo

    By the way, I changed my middle name to the same.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • derrybderryb Posts: 28,918 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's not like modern gold counterfeiters are as competent as the $20 omega man. Modern gold counterfeits, if not easily detectable by appearance, do not normally get by the Sigma verifier. I have yet to see a modern gold counterfeit coin that was not a plated coin, especially those coming from China. Pretty much the same with 10oz. and less bullion bars. Note that the sealed gold bars are not exempt from counterfeiters, they are counterfeiting the sealed packaging as well.

    "There is nothing more permanent than a temporary government program." - Milton Friedman

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 23,731 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the thickness of the plating varies by cost. the thickest I've seen for sale was 100mils

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • I have seen common date lincoln cents counerfeited. everything can be counterfeited.

    If you know what to look for in a fake and if you can test and verify it’s authenticity you can buy what most appeals to you.

    You can put whatever measures in place you want but typically the counterfeiters are always one or two steps ahead.

    I understand these responses. But my original question remains.

    Gold is a global currency (and arguably silver is too), and it certainly is functioning as both money and currency. It also is very liquid; you can exchange gold for local currency anywhere, at globally recognized “spot” prices (plus premiums).

    Given its high liquidity and global spot price, why would one transact in anything other than the most difficult coin to counterfeit? Stated another way: why buy gold (or silver) Eagles, Kruggerands, Britannias, Pandas, or Roos (or bars or rounds) when you can transact in more-secure Maple Leafs for no additional cost, and in fact the Maple premiums sometimes are lower?

    It would seem to me simple market economics would dictate Maple Leafs are always the right choice. Because you have the same liquidity, the same spot price, the same (and even lower) premiums -- and you get the benefits of their anticounterfeiting technology nearly cost-free.

    At least that’s how I see it. I don’t understand why others don’t see it this way. Especially when dealing with some of the older coin designs, like Kruggerands, Britannias or Roos, and especially bars/rounds, which are much easier to counterfeit vs. a Maple Leaf.

  • MilesWaitsMilesWaits Posts: 3,970 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I personally wouldn’t get near bars or rounds in 1 ounce gold.
    I am comfortable in what I have that was previously purchased from reputable dealers that is largely graded gold, at the same price as spot, or sets like lunar gold, Libertad, etc.
    I hear what you’re saying going forward but that doesn’t take into account personal taste.
    For purely Bullion, non numismatic, you are right, go for the most reliable. That view differs depending on who you ask.
    Most of my gold sales go towards my personal dealer which I already have a Years strong integrity filled relationship with that won’t likely change.
    Otherwise, BST. Same deal.

    Waiting for the swell in PM's and surf.
  • Tiggs2012Tiggs2012 Posts: 111 ✭✭✭

    @Bullion said:
    At least that’s how I see it. I don’t understand why others don’t see it this way. Especially when dealing with some of the older coin designs, like Kruggerands, Britannias or Roos, and especially bars/rounds, which are much easier to counterfeit vs. a Maple Leaf.

    Because theres other factors at play too you're ignoring with exemptions in play in some cases like for eagles in the US. IRS forms like 1099, 1040, 8300, etc. make it lots of fun for those of us in the US. A maple will always be worth less than an equivalent eagle at least in the US as long as its given a more favorable treatment.

  • AlexinPAAlexinPA Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bullion said:

    @DrBuster said:
    How in holy hell is that user name a week old....??? Bravo

    Was a longtime PCGS forum member, but dropped off some time ago. With the CU acquisition, I couldn't recover my account. Just so happened this name was available, which coincides nicely with a preference change from numismatics to bullion.

    Had the same problem. Joined in 2002 then went away. Came back to a new way of doing things.
    :|

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