@ricko said:
If you are not having fun, it is no longer a hobby. Cheers, RickO
Honestly, It is way more fun being a dealer than a collector. Best of both worlds. I get to play with coins all day. I use the profits to go deep-sea fishing
@Cougar1978 said:
95 pct of collectors lose money.
Care to share some data on this?
I am quite sure Cougar1978 is correct.
Buy a coin at retail, and you are typically 15-20% in the hole to begin with. Look at the demographics of coin buyers--mostly older men, many retired, and most having never had hands-on training in grading or detection of altered/counterfeit coins. I live in Tucson, where there is more than one coin shop per 100,000 people. Not counting bullion(-related) items, only a tiny percentage of what these dealers have in their inventories is nice for the grade, in my opinion. An awful lot of collectors are so price-conscious that they sacrifice quality for quantity, forgetting that they will pay for that mistake when they sell their coins. On occasion, I have seen collectors buy really ugly coins just because they were cheap, with no thought to what the results will be when they try to sell those coins.
And when they sell, it will mostly be to B&M dealers. Around here, really nice coins purchased by B&M dealers usually end up going to Long Beach, to be sold to other dealers (meaning that the collector will receive less, since two mouths are being fed). It is easy to buy nice coins for fair prices and then lose money by making poor choices when selling them (been there, done that).
Typical collectors have the deck heavily stacked against them. A fair chunk of this boils down to a lack of knowledge--I strongly believe that most collectors don't really understand what they are buying when they make coin purchases. I do not believe that, on average, actively participating Forum members are representative of typical coin collectors. The participants here tend to be more astute.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
@ErrorsOnCoins.... I did not mean that dealers could not have fun...Just that if coin collecting was no longer fun, than it has ceased to be a hobby....Certainly dealers may have fun...though many appear as if they are not...JMO. Cheers, RickO
For those collectors who aspire to be dealers, give this some thought: Would you like to put up with people who are exactly like you all day/every day?
Every coin in your collection should stand on its own merits. When you or your heirs sell, the "set" will be broken up by either you or the next person.
when you purchase one of these coins the frosted devices and mirrored fields are more than enough to warrant a Cameo (or a DCAM) designation;
when you sell the coin you purchased in #1 above the frosted devices and mirrored fields are not sufficient to warrant a Cameo (or a DCAM) designation.
Grading is remains an opinion largely predicated on subjectivity and some opinions are better than others. And that is in part due to the refined subjectivity some have acquired over time through experience.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Quality counts, not quantity. And for the average collector, coins are not a good long term investment. The average collector can't afford the coins that are good investments. So the average collector should buy a coin because he likes it.
1) It's a hobby. Do it because you like it. Don't expect to make money with your coins. Ever.
2) Learn to grade. Find a mentor. Make sure he / she knows more than you do. Always run a potentially expensive purchase by him / her. Occasionally, even your mentor will make a mistake.
3) Never bid on what for you is an expensive coin sight unseen, unless someone you trust actually views it for you.
4) Find coins which you find attractive for the grade at a price which is affordable for you, and keep them until you sell a large portion of your collection. Upgrading your coins will make the people with whom you do business happy. You, often not so much.
5) Grade rarities often don't become so rare over time.
6) Shady Dave, look at Coinfact and auction pricing five years ago for specific coins in specific grades, and more often than not, you'll find Cougar 1978's comment correct. Moreso if you go back ten or fifteen years.
7) If you like RD copper, get it in a PCGS 1st generation or OGH holder.
8) If you stretch for a coin today, you'll probably be buried in it.
Comments
Honestly, It is way more fun being a dealer than a collector. Best of both worlds. I get to play with coins all day. I use the profits to go deep-sea fishing
I am quite sure Cougar1978 is correct.
Buy a coin at retail, and you are typically 15-20% in the hole to begin with. Look at the demographics of coin buyers--mostly older men, many retired, and most having never had hands-on training in grading or detection of altered/counterfeit coins. I live in Tucson, where there is more than one coin shop per 100,000 people. Not counting bullion(-related) items, only a tiny percentage of what these dealers have in their inventories is nice for the grade, in my opinion. An awful lot of collectors are so price-conscious that they sacrifice quality for quantity, forgetting that they will pay for that mistake when they sell their coins. On occasion, I have seen collectors buy really ugly coins just because they were cheap, with no thought to what the results will be when they try to sell those coins.
And when they sell, it will mostly be to B&M dealers. Around here, really nice coins purchased by B&M dealers usually end up going to Long Beach, to be sold to other dealers (meaning that the collector will receive less, since two mouths are being fed). It is easy to buy nice coins for fair prices and then lose money by making poor choices when selling them (been there, done that).
Typical collectors have the deck heavily stacked against them. A fair chunk of this boils down to a lack of knowledge--I strongly believe that most collectors don't really understand what they are buying when they make coin purchases. I do not believe that, on average, actively participating Forum members are representative of typical coin collectors. The participants here tend to be more astute.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
@ErrorsOnCoins.... I did not mean that dealers could not have fun...Just that if coin collecting was no longer fun, than it has ceased to be a hobby....Certainly dealers may have fun...though many appear as if they are not...JMO. Cheers, RickO
For those collectors who aspire to be dealers, give this some thought: Would you like to put up with people who are exactly like you all day/every day?
Still want to be a dealer?
Cheers
Bob
They were just being nice...
The coin you are selling is over graded,
The coin you are buying is under graded.
Buy in haste, repent at leisure.
By all means remember that coins were made for commerce. Never forget that they were spent and used.
bob
Every coin in your collection should stand on its own merits. When you or your heirs sell, the "set" will be broken up by either you or the next person.
OCD runs rampant in the coin collecting community.
Accept that you have it. Learn how to manage it and use it to your benefit.
The just lost money on their "investments".
For raw mirrored and frosted proofs:
when you purchase one of these coins the frosted devices and mirrored fields are more than enough to warrant a Cameo (or a DCAM) designation;
when you sell the coin you purchased in #1 above the frosted devices and mirrored fields are not sufficient to warrant a Cameo (or a DCAM) designation.
Grading is remains an opinion largely predicated on subjectivity and some opinions are better than others. And that is in part due to the refined subjectivity some have acquired over time through experience.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Corollary: The coin you sell is a common date,
The coin you buy is a "better date."
Coin collectors are cynics.....
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Usually they are speculators who believe they can make money by buying and holding for a year or two.
It's easier to buy coins for less than they're really worth than to get full value for them.
New collectors should sell a coin once in a while to know the true value.
Quality counts, not quantity. And for the average collector, coins are not a good long term investment. The average collector can't afford the coins that are good investments. So the average collector should buy a coin because he likes it.
This is a hobby. Hobbies can be expensive.
There is a fine line between "He who hesitates is lost" and "Look before you leap".
Smitten with DBLCs.
1) It's a hobby. Do it because you like it. Don't expect to make money with your coins. Ever.
2) Learn to grade. Find a mentor. Make sure he / she knows more than you do. Always run a potentially expensive purchase by him / her. Occasionally, even your mentor will make a mistake.
3) Never bid on what for you is an expensive coin sight unseen, unless someone you trust actually views it for you.
4) Find coins which you find attractive for the grade at a price which is affordable for you, and keep them until you sell a large portion of your collection. Upgrading your coins will make the people with whom you do business happy. You, often not so much.
5) Grade rarities often don't become so rare over time.
6) Shady Dave, look at Coinfact and auction pricing five years ago for specific coins in specific grades, and more often than not, you'll find Cougar 1978's comment correct. Moreso if you go back ten or fifteen years.
7) If you like RD copper, get it in a PCGS 1st generation or OGH holder.
8) If you stretch for a coin today, you'll probably be buried in it.
So very true.