Anybody know about the Treasury sorting silver coins out of circulation back in the late 60's?
CaptHenway
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I seem to remember reading decades ago about either the U.S. Mint or the U.S. Treasury or (more likely) the Federal Reserve Banks running incoming dimes, quarters and halves through special machines to sort out the 90% silver coins before recirculating the clad coins. Does anybody know anything about this? Any citations mentioning when and where this was done and for how long? For some reason I am having trouble finding stories posted on the Internet in the 1960's..........
Thanks.
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," due out late 2025.
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I want to remember that, but I don't recall anything specific. I don't recall anything official ever being announced. I know that the public was pulling silver coins out of circulation on a regular basis over time, but at first (1965-1967 or so) it was a non-issue because most of the coins were still silver.
I do remember that LBJ made a statement about silver in coinage - about the ongoing shortage of coins due to the rising price of silver (and some hoarding) and the subsequent issuance of clad coinage as a remedy - I think that the letter/memo circa 1964, has been posted here on the forum before.....
I also remember that the strategic stockpile was the focus of several Coin World articles in the 1970's, the concern being a question about how long it would last before silver prices would go to the moon. I think it was in the 1990's when the silver stockpile was declared non-essential.
I still think it's a travesty that they didn't release the 300,000 1964-D Peace Dollars and keep silver monetized.
I knew it would happen.
I also had heard those stories, but never saw anything 'official' acknowledging that it was happening. Even when clad was introduced, silver coins were so plentiful that many people did not save them. That began to change about four years later (approximately). Cheers, RickO
As others have said, for a while silver coins remained common. My recollection is that they went from being common to scarce quite quickly, e.g., common in early 1967, scarce by early 1968.
I remember that coin rolls went from paper to clear plastic for a time. The Armored truck companies were swapping out Silver for clad before they went to the bank. But still missed some. I don't know how, but you would get rolls from the bank in clear plastic and BOOM there was $ilver sprinkled right in there plain as day.
100% Positive BST transactions
OK thanks.
Thanks all...I was feeling old UNTIL I read this thread because it was before my time...literally
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I graduated from college in May 1968. I definitely remember going to the bank for at least a year prior to that and getting rolls of quarters and checking them for silver. Kennedy halves were hardly circulating and Franklins and Walkers were rare by 1967.
Silver dimes and quarters were still circulating along with clad versions, but increasingly uncommon.
Edited to add that I don't know what mechanism the US would have had to take back coins from banks and check them. The transportation and processing expense would have outweighed the benefit.
In Aug 1968 I was a young US Air Force officer and assigned (among other duties) as silver recovery monitor. I was on a base in GA that had 18,000 employees, and there was a lot of photography used, mostly x-rays of aircraft and parts and of course the base hospital. The silver residue was contained as sludge in 5 gallon canisters, and I was responsible for sending them to the Navy in Colts Neck, NJ. Others were responsible for sorting and recovering silver scrap.
@s4ny ....Now that is a job I did not know about....It does make sense (when volume was present), but just never thought of it. Cheers, RickO
I remember hearing g a out it but that's about it. I do remember some of the copper ddo's coming out then the government said we don't make mistakes. Yeah right
Any citations mentioning when and where this was done and for how long? For some reason I am having trouble finding stories posted on the Internet in the 1960's..........
Abraham Lincoln was posting witty sayings on the internets back in the 1860's, so I cannot imagine why you are having a problem with 100 years later.
I was still pulling silver out of circ. until late 1971. I had a Aunt who was a waitress at a local busy diner. She let me come over twice a week to go through her tip bowl of change.
Here's an indirect reference, from the Congressional Record of October 15, 1969 (page 57 of the PDF):
https://govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GPO-CRECB-1969-pt22/pdf/GPO-CRECB-1969-pt22-4-2.pdf
"With the kind of recirculation going on, where-by the Treasury is picking up silver coins in the way of quarters and dimes still in circulation, and reprocessing them, it can pick up another 3 million ounces."
The discussion was about the metal composition of the proposed Eisenhower dollar.
Here's another reference, from the 1969 Annual Report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the State of the Finances.
**See document page 156 (book page 119) **
"In connection with the Treasury’s program to make silver bullion available for industrial use, the Bureau of the Mint recovered 30.8 million fine ounces of silver from the melting of $38 1/2 million of silver quarters and $4 1/2 million of silver dimes which had been separated from inventories of coins not recirculated by the Federal Reserve System. At the end of fiscal 1968 the Bureau of the Mint had in its inventories circulated coins estimated to contain silver coins equivalent to 114.7 million fine ounces of silver. In addition, the Federal Reserve banks and branches had in their inventories circulated coins estimated to contain silver coins equivalent to 127 million fine ounces of silver. These inventories were the result of a program initiated in fiscal 1968, for recovering the silver from silver coin. This remaining silver will be recovered during fiscal years 1969 and 1970, as the silver coins are separated from the clad coins and are melted."
https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QaeQ32iwdiWHXXo1Hmxmj2UFL_lDXRzc6D-3kbiFEHJdgYyEnTeeU9KGAvUPCO6MMtpLKpYsndkX8uS_YY9nt6izhNj849kdACDG7QHCXkJWAOULdMfjc1taPXbn7L2OErDSiIJpBUuCepxi4XXNptMMT3Pmr3D44glezPjudgZ95zRADbxg3HM1w2WbISQ01BrHTLflUP6xTCJRwoD3Bjappj0PykIkjGLh1r0Yde0SLRGLt_4_8XecbUwSE6oKFET__68NYvKNtFtP6e074B-R68BhzTQVqHKXpe8t81n4aBdGVk4
A coin story this big must have been written up somewhere in one of the issues of the Numismatist in the mid-1960s... right???
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Excellent. This confirms that they did indeed cull out silver coins from FRB inventories and melt them down for the silver. Unfortunately it does not say HOW they culled them out.
Could have been simply by weight. Didn't they have machinery that checked the weights of precious metal planchets before striking? Should have been simple enough to "reject" clad coins because of their lighter weight.
Thanks!
TD
Much more likely in Coin World and Numismatic News. Possibly Numismatic Scrapbook.
Just FYI, both Numismatist and Numismatic Scrapbook in the 60's were THICK. Anybody wants to read through a decade of them better have lots of spare time.
Looks like the program recovered in total about $300 million face value in silver quarters and dimes. From the Fiscal 1970 Annual Report, PDF page 154, report page 130:
“During fiscal 1970 the Bureau of the Mint recovered 50.5 million fine ounces of silver from the melting of $12.6 million of silver quarters and $57.7 million of silver dimes which had been separated from inventories of coins not recirculated by the Federal Reserve System. This program, initiated in fiscal 1968, has provided a total recovery of 212.3 million fine ounces of silver.”
https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/title/annual-report-secretary-treasury-state-finances-194/annual-report-secretary-treasury-state-finances-fiscal-year-ended-june-30-1970-5607
Here you go . . .
“In June 1967, $1,850,000 was obligated for production units of automatic coin inspection equipment to replace the present manual-visual system of reviewing coins. Because of the speed and accuracy expected of these machines, the cost of reviewing coins should decrease substantially. However, since the delamination inspector had to be converted to separate silver from clad subsidiary coins, the thirteen production units purchased have not been utilized for the purpose intended. They have, however, been invaluable in this coin separation program at both the Mints and Federal Reserve Banks. The other two types of inspection equipment are still getting the bugs out.”
Page 249:
https://books.google.com/books?id=Gw1jwTbLEXUC&pg=PA250&lpg=PA250&dq=federal+reserve+separate+silver+coins+1968&source=bl&ots=ftg_o3Z4AY&sig=ACfU3U0I7QaX4gh5rWONInjarG_XQXfZvA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjN3KqRybTpAhWFqp4KHYI_AcwQ6AEwAHoECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=federal reserve separate silver coins 1968&f=false
Also, this . . .
STATUS of AMF INSPECTION EQUIPMENT
Coin separator-delamination inspector. — The American Machine & Foundry Co. has delivered five separator-delamination inspectors. These machines are being used for a purpose not contemplated at the time of the request for reprograming; that is, the separation of silver from clad dimes and quarters in the Treasury Department's program of removing from circulation all such silver coins. Therefore, they are not being used for the purpose intended to yield the savings estimated. Nine additional production units are scheduled for delivery by the end of April at 1-week intervals. They will be used in the silver-clad coin separating task as long as they are needed.
These units as well as the prototype have an attachment in which printed circuit cards can be inserted so that by a change in cards they can be used as either a coin separator or a delamination inspector. When no longer needed for coin separation, they can be switched over to delamination inspection by inserting a different card. Exactly how long this coin separation task will require is very difficult to estimate; however, we have tentatively stated that the bulk of the job should have been completed during fiscal year 1969.
Pages 377-378:
https://books.google.com/books?id=bh4d688BI2sC&pg=PA378&lpg=PA378&dq=%22delamination+inspector%22&source=bl&ots=gOMoXYPzXX&sig=ACfU3U0Y2WEGLronE7lLuKPjlnnuJN7guw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBmJLqpLXpAhXVrJ4KHUyDB8QQ6AEwAHoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22delamination%20inspector%22&f=false
excellent
Fantastic! Thank you!
I have a large collection of Coinage Magazines from that era and there is definitely an article showing the sorting machine they used to automatically pull silver coins out of circulation. I’ll post a pic if I run across it again.
Thanks!
TD
The FED hasn't kept large inventories of coins since the '60's. More accurately they don't store many coins at any site because they do have a system that is designed to move coin from mint production and returned coin back into feed for banks. This supply is highly fluid. As recently as the mid-90's they did store some circulated coin on site (12 districts) as backup though this, too, may be gone by now. Pretty much now days clad coins circulate if they exist.
Between mid-'68 and mid '69 they removed silver coin from circulation. Nobody made machines for this task so each federal district invented and made their own using differences between silver and clad; weight, rotational inertia, etc. I've never seen anything about any fed district going through stockpiled coin. My guess is they each processed their inventories last before dismantling the machines. It's quite certain no vault contains random mixed clad and silver today.
Indeed, very few coins sit at all any longer. All the work of getting coins back into circulation is contracted out. FIFO accounting rules so the oldest coins in stock are the first to be shipped out. Few coins sit for more than a year or two which is why all the coins in circulation are being ground down by wear and machine evenly. This isn't like the 1960's where coins like beautiful AU 1932 quarters could be plucked from circulation because many coins sat in vaults far more than the circulated. Today you can still easily find AU 1932 or even '27-D quarters in AU but nice attractive XF 1966 quarters are virtually unknown.
Because the coins were separated in the '60's most of the silver still exists, but make no mistake about it, the clads are gone. More than half of the clads which were rejected by the machines are gone and virtually every single one today is highly degraded.
I have little doubt that these separating machines were put in tactical and strategic positions but calling the process "automatic" might be a bit of an exaggeration.
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edited for my AI to add; “The silver was sorted. The clads were sacrificed. And the hum of coinage now echoes through wear, not vaults.”
Based upon information supplied earlier in this five year old thread, I did do an article about the silver separation process.
Basically, with the introduction of clad coinage, there were problems in the early days with blanks or planchets losing (usually) one of the cladding layers before the planchet got to the press. To catch these the Mint bought several machines that weighed each planchet and kicked out any planchet outside a specified weight range. Somebody figured out that this would also kick out silver coins which were significantly heavier than the standard clad weights. So, for a while, any used Dimes and Quarters and maybe Halves coming back into a Federal Reserve Bank were run through one of these machines and the silver extracted.
TD
Thank you. That is surprising. Perhaps it's more these machines were later repurposed for silver removal since by 1968, I believe, the problem was mostly solved for clad by them all being rolled at high pressure. It was a very complex and fluid era. Perhaps, I only believe it was solved because most of the delaminated ones seen are dated from '65 to '67. Most of those I've had in hand were '65.
Here is the article, from Coin Week.
https://coinweek.com/the-great-silver-coin-swindle/
Great article, thanks. Interesting that about 25% of the coinage in circulation was still silver in 1968.
Well, her testimony was given on February 27 of 1968, and may have been based upon the sampling that they did on those used coins that were stockpiled at the FRB's starting at some unknown date in 1967. Those stockpiled coins could easily have averaged around 25% silver. I would not be surprised if the percentage of silver coins in actual circulation of 2-27-68 was far less than that, and by the end of 1968 virtually nothing, though in reality there was always a trickle of silver in circulation for many years after that.
I met Eva Adams a few times while I was working for Coin World. She was no fool, but I would bet that any statistics she gave out came from a piece of paper that her staff handed to her.
TD
Great! Thank you. There were a couple things I didn't know in there.
No time now though.
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The theoretical "melt" value of 90% silver minor coins did not exceed the face value until May 1967.
So it is a little surprising in regards to the 25% quantity. But regardless, there was a fair amount of silver still out there for the taking in 1968.
It is also interesting that the price of silver stayed in a narrow range (very close to $1.30) for a long time, from JAN 1963 to FEB 1967. At that level, a silver dollar contained exactly $1 worth of silver.
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I remember a dealer advertisement in Coin World circa 1968 or so............explaining the rationalization for buying 40% Kennedys.
The rationale was that if the price of silver went up, the price of the coins would go up, but if the price of silver went way down, the face value of the halves would set a floor under the value of the halves, thus upside potential with minimal risk.
I knew it would happen.
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I remember when 40% silver half dollars were bought and sold in bulk for about 60 to 65 cents each. The close proximity of the price to the face value was an aspect that definitely helped make them popular at the time.
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And, the dealers could get them. You can't sell product you can't get.
I did notice in that era that there seemed to be way too many brand new coin being issued but I had ascribed it to people removing so much silver that new coin was flowing in to replace them and it never occurred to me they might warehouse mixed coin. This implies they got a lot more than the ~20% of the silver that had been in circulation in 1964. Maybe as much as 30%.
I believe most of the finished machines used to separate silver and clad worked on the angle they bounced off a peg on a spring. Clad bounced further because it was lighter.
I would think that screening would be the fastest way to separate thin planchets but sometimes practice and theory collide.
It's a shame I missed this article. I scan a lot of sites and mostly read the clad articles at Coin Week. I'd have read it if I saw your name. Thanks.
And the silver in war nickels was about 50% above face. A huge quantity was sent to the smelters during that time and in the 60 years since. I doubt that more than 8% of the original mintage survives today.