37.5 mm foreign silver coin that circulated in 1840s America?
jonathanb
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This is a stretch, but let's see if someone can come up with a candidate for a 37.5 mm foreign coin that circulated in 1840s America.
I just bought this medal that was awarded by the New Haven Horticultural Society in 1845. I'm sure it's authentic. Besides having the right style for the period and age-appropriate toning, Google also agrees that there was a George Gabriel in New Haven who was active with the horticultural society and related societies at the time.
So what was the host coin? At 37.5 mm, it's too small for a US silver dollar and many of the crown-sized foreign coins that are a bit larger yet. It has strong reeding, which makes me think that it wasn't terribly old before it was repurposed. Maybe 1820s era for the original struck coin?
Anyone have a good candidate?
Comments
Pretty close in diameter to a Spanish Colonial 8 Reales piece.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
5 Francs? Don't know, just guessing.
The British Crown during the period of 1818-1820 was 37.6mm. Im not sure if it was reeded.
Some republican coins from Latin America were 37.5M but I doubt Equador or Colombia had reeded edges during that period. Italian States had /120 grana/ 5 Lires which were 37.5mm and presumeably the technology for reeding.
Latin American Collection
That's my first guess, too, but also probably one of the first you checked.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Not reeded
Latin American Collection
Here is a helpful link where you can search with fields like diameter: ttps://en.numista.com/catalogue/index.php?mode=avance&p=6&l=&r=&e=&d=&ru=&i=&ca=3&no=&se=&v=&m=1&a=1800-1850&t=37.5&dg=&w=&u=&f=&g=&tb=y&cat=y&ct=coin
Latin American Collection
@Boosibri the 1818-1820 crown has a lettered edge.
@Sonorandesertrat most of the Spanish colonial pieces also had lettered edges in this period, although there are enough countries in the mix that I can't be sure that I looked at all of them.
@CaptHenway the 5 Francs from this period seem to be 37.0 mm and a lettered edge (although there were a lot of varieties so again I could have missed one)
@Boosibri nice searchable link, thx! This example currently weighs 23.7 g, so "more than that" although I don't know exactly how much was removed when smoothing the surfaces. I'll work my way through the several dozen possibilities and see if I can find one with a reeded edge...
Can't help with the host coin but very cool piece!
Brazil 1200 Reis seems to be a possibility. I can't find a picture online that shows the edge. Something for me to look for in person, when they let us all out of the house again...
That is a very low mintage coin. total mintage of all dates from 1834-1847 is probably 30,000.
Latin American Collection
and diameter was 37mm so unless it was flattened, probably not a 1200 reis
Latin American Collection
37.5mm, 25g and potentially reeded
Latin American Collection
37.5mm, 27.5g
Latin American Collection
great find, JB!
While I have no knowledge of what coin might be involved, I can suggest a likely possibility for the maker. Everard Benjamin (http:///www.americansilversmiths.org/makers/silversmiths/15109.htm) was the leading jeweler and watchmaker in the city during the 1840s. In addition, he is known to have both judged work and provided silver prizes for the Connecticut and New Haven Agricultural Societies during this period. He would have had both access to raw coinage and the lathe needed to mount and prepare the coin for engraving. Likely unprovable, but a possibility, at least.
@Boosibri do you know much about Venetian coinage? I've heard of Brazilian coinage circulating in early America. Venice is a new one on me.
(I wasn't trusting the exact diameters. Most of the listings on that site seem to be whole numbers of millimeters. That makes me think they've been rounded, maybe?)
I don't like the Sicilian piece as a match. Mine has a very plain, fairly thick rim. The Sicilian piece is much fancier, and even if the fancy parts were removed the remaining bits look too thin.
Wow, @wev, way to answer a question that I didn't know I was asking! OK, so maybe it's not provable. Sure looks to me like a pretty good stylistic match, though!
I hate references that are too lazy to get weights and measurements correct.
They had lettered edges.
Mexican cap and rays peso?
39 mm
I don't believe they were reeded that early on...
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That Venetian 5 lire coin was essentially a siege coin, issued during the failed 1848-1849 rebellion against Austrian rule. It would be quite unusual for one of these pieces to make it to the U.S. and be used by a jeweler/silversmith.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Oops, I missed the date. It would be QUITE unusual for one of the Venetian pieces to have been used as an award medal three years before it was struck in the first place...
nothing to add but interested,
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set