1964P PCGS MS68 Kennedy pop2/0
WWBillman
Posts: 900
A rare opportunity.....To get ripped off according to the responses in this thread.
1964P PCGS MS68 Kennedy
1964P PCGS MS68 Kennedy
Bill
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
0
Comments
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
You are correct in your memory. The second piece was a 64 SMS piece that was not labeled as such and is currently in a NGC SMS 69 holder. To the best of my knowledge, there are no legitimate MS-68's for this date.
Ken
My Washington Type B/C Set
Mark
I've dealt with this coin before (my email has already been sent to the seller).
This is a clerical error on PCGS's part.
That is definitely a PROOF with the wrong insert (MS).
ALL SMS coins are now in SMS holders with NGC and PCGS. Also, all SMS 1964's are matte in appearance with a silvery gray hard look to them (satiny- NOT Prooflike!!).
peacockcoins
So has mine
This is not covered under PCGS's guarantee. PCGS is not responsible for obvious labeling errors. In this case, whoever had this coin certified should have contacted PCGS when it was returned and PCGS correct the error.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
My point is that the existence of this coin is harmful to PCGS's reputation. And, it's not like it's an obvious error, eg, labeling a BTW commemorative as a WC commemorative. Though to some of us the coin might obviously be a PR, others might look at the PCGS grade, assume that PCGS knows what it is doing and therefore conclude that the coin is a well struck MS. So, while I think that PCGS should strive to buy back obvious errors, eg, my example of a mislabeled commemorative, I think this mislabeled PCGS coins is even more important to buy back and correct.
Of course, I agree 110% with your assessment that ideally the owner should freely return the coin to PCGS and ask for the label to be corrected. However, if I had purchased the coin for, say $4,000, I have to think I wouldn't be particularly eager to do so. I like to think I would return the coin because it's the right thing to do, but I sure hope I never have to cross that particular bridge.
Mark
Without knowing the circumstances surrounding its original slabbing, it is hard to just call it a label error that the owner should have caught. An obvious error was the MS65 Franklin half we sent in to be re-holdered, and it came back in a MS68 holder (when the pop was 2/0 for MS66). This was our responsibility to have corrected, which we did.
<< <i>So my question is, could my 1964D PCGS MS67 Kennedy really be a SMS coin? >>
SMS coins were not minted in Denver.
Now, should you ever want to sell that 1964-D- please let me know!
peacockcoins
<< <i>And if it's an error on PCGS's part, they should note it in the cert database. The cert number shows MS68. >>
All error certs will do this. The GRADE (in this case, "MS"68) and the certificate insert number will match (the insert number referring to the type and grade).
I've yet to see a PCGS insert error that only had part of the insert wrong. Just FYI
peacockcoins
Russ, NCNE
I guess its not hard to tell I have never collected Proof or SMS coins.
By the way it is blast white with full luster and not a mark visible to the naked eye and I don't forsee letting it go for a long time.
Type collector.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Russ, NCNE
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Well I have gotten a few emails on this questioning whether or not it
really
is a proof - I'm going to pull it off auction and send it to PCGS to
re-examine it??
Russ, NCNE
peacockcoins
<< <i>I was pretty nice about it. >>
Braddick,
That would explain it. I wasn't.
Russ, NCNE
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
"Because I can"
myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
What about the PCGS Finalizer? Isn't there someone who checks these coins once they're holdered and before they go out? I thought so, but I'm beginning to now doubt it.
peacockcoins
You would think that a coin that would command that kind of price tag would get checked more than once out the door.
According to the PCGS Certification Database, certification number 05612144 is defined as the following:
COIN INFORMATION
Date, mintmark: 1964
Denomination: 50C
Variety: N/A
Grade: PR68
09/07/2006
Russ, NCNE
He listed this coin on 6/25 at $399.
He just listed the same coin today at $499.
As of right now, both auctions are running.
Russ, NCNE
peacockcoins
I highly doubt he will get the holded corrected.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Bill: I know PCGS has been in touch with the seller as well. I suspect this thing will get cleaned up, if PCGS does not "drop the ball". Wondercoin
I have e-mailed the seller a couple of times (politely) and got responses to all of my e-mails. I genuinely believe that he doesn't know how to tell if the "MS-68" Kennedy is a MS or PR coin. If you are not familiar with the series, that's understandable to a degree. I have several high grade MS pieces, and many of them are prooflike, to the point that they could be mistaken for proof coins by an inexperienced person.
The fact that someone has assembled a lot of high grade material does not mean that they necessarily know what they have. The seller has been a long time buyer of coins based on his feedback. But the seller could just know to buy high grade coins and not know about the series themselves. How many collectors do you run into on a regular basis who purchase a coin based on what PCGS's label says rather than their own knowledge.
<< <i>But the seller could just know to buy high grade coins and not know about the series themselves. >>
Keith,
I think you're probably right and, regardless of my misgivings, I plan to take a shot at a couple of his coins depending on his response to the last eMail I sent him. Ah, the joys of risk.
The fact that he closed the second auction I linked above would indicate that he's most likely just mistake-prone and not crooked.
Russ, NCNE
This guy has 87 auctions running right now and every one of them are modern proof coins. All he sells is Proof & SMS coins. Of the 87 auctions he is selling 18 proof Kennedy’s and 3 SMS Kennedy’s.
Then out of the blue he has 1 auction for a PCGS labeled MS68 Kennedy that has a light cameo and reflective fields. The coin is a Proof 68 coin in an error PCGS holder that calls it MS68.
This guy knows the difference between a Proof and Business strike coin.
Ok maybe if it was a SMS Kennedy that did not exhibit very many proof like qualities in a MS holder I might be able to believe he truly thought it was a MS coin. But to believe a Proof is a MS Kennedy?
If you want to trust this guy is just ignorant and made an honest mistake because he was nice to you go right ahead but don't bash me for not being that gullible and short sighted.
There is a small minute possible chance that he is truly that stupid.
Regardless, if it is stupidity or he is just out to screw someone he is not someone I want to buy coins from.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
THIS IS THE VERY REASON I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO RETURN MECHANICAL ERRORS TO PCGS IN THE FIRSTPLACE.
Also, with mechanical errors, I believe the back of PCGS' submission form makes it clear that liability passes to those who sold the coin, not to PCGS. Hence, if a collector receives a mechanical error and sells it for way more than it should sell for and then it sells 5 more times for "moon money", the "idiot" holding the "hot potato" at the end may decide to "go after" everyone in that chain of title. I believe it is PCGS' position that everyone might be responsible to that end user; everyone that is except for PCGS. This is just my interpretation of what PCGS disclaimed in its rules of submission
And like I said, I have MS-68 and MS-69 pieces in my collection that have as much cameo as the scan indicates for that specific coin.
Keith: Do you have an MS Kennedy that looks like that? I didn't think so
<< <i>I have MS-68 and MS-69 pieces in my collection that have as much cameo as the scan indicates for that specific coin. >>
For 1964?
Russ, NCNE
Kennedy's no because they were clads instead of silvers, but both MS-69 Lincoln's have had enough of a cameo to have garnered a Prooflike designation.
peacockcoins
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
peacockcoins