Copper (Red) spots on Modern Gold, or should I dip my first coin?
AngryTurtle
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I have a grading voucher from PCGS and was rounding up my submission, which will be all modern coins. Its a collecction of Gold and platinum. When I pulled them out of my SDB, the picture below shows what I found on my Thomas Jefferson Fisrt spouse Liberty circulation strike:
The proof version, and the other gold in the box were all fine. I did a forum search, and I found a post from RWB where he puts forth the theory that these are caused by microscopic silver and copper particles floating in the air at the mint.
Anyway, should I dip this? I think I recall @dcarr recommending Tarn-X, maybe not for this application. Whats available at the local grocery store to do this? I have not dipped a coin, other than to clean off PVC with acetone.
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That is a nice looking coin & I like copper spots so long as they aren't on the face.
My Saint Set
I wouldn't dip the entire coin. You may be able to spot treat the area, but my guess is it will still be noticeable, although much less than now. FWIW, you may be stuck with some remnant of the stain or cleaning, evan If youre good at conservation
I wouldn't mess with that piece because of that spot.
A lot of BU first spouse coins in the first year gold Buffaloes developed or came with some reddish spots. I’m not sure what they are on .9999 gold.
I have several .9999 spouses, and other gold coins/medals, that have this type of spot. They even show up on .99999 gold coins (RCM). I heard some have restored them with a high temp special torch to remove them from gold Panda's.
I have tried various chemicals but never found one that works well. I mostly decided to leave them alone, but someday I might try the torch idea.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
I've never had luck dipping off dark copper spots. Usually dipping only reduces the darkness of the spot but it's still visible. Isn't this coin essentially worth only bullion value in grades less than MS70?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I do not believe that spot can be successfully removed.... by success, I mean without leaving clear evidence it was there... It is possible that it could be removed - but the underlying metal will look different. My recommendation would be to either live with it, or sell it and buy a pristine replacement. Cheers, RickO
Picture of mine with spots also. (PCGS MS69)
BTW...Anyone ever read the the document referred to on the reverse of the coin....Holy smokes
https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/virginia-statute-for-religious-liberty/
My Saint Set
I think if I send it in it would get a 68 or 69, making it not worth sending in. So the choice is to send something else in in its place, or remove the spot if possible. I guess I could send it in as is and see what PCGS does/says.
Such a great design. Always loved those!
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You can get Tarn-X at Wallgreens, usually. I'm not sure what other stores might have it.
You could soak the entire coin in Tarn-X for 15 minutes or more. Since it is 999+ gold, a long soaking will not harm it and would have a good chance of removing the spot. Just be sure you use fresh cleaner and not cleaner that was already used on dirty/tarnished silver or copper coins.
When finished, rinse the coin completely under the tap (edges too) and pat it dry using a soft clean bath towel (but don't rub it with the towel - pat dry only). You can re-use the cleaner.
I agree with Danny. Regular JewelLuster will not work on these as I have some other gold with red spots that were not changed by it. Theoretically a moderate acid should work, but vinegar is not strong enough either. Since it is basically bullion anyway, no harm done.
Well, just Love coins, period.
A spot like that will come right off without a trace IF there is not a tiny black bit of debris near the center. Whenever you dip any coin including gold you must neutralize it. Baking soda and distilled water are good enough for a home "Lab.">
@7Jaguars said:
These spots are removed with jeweluster on a regular basis. You don't need to dip the entire coin There is a faster method.,
The Conservation Dept at any TPGS should know all the "tricks."
Au contraire, mon ami. I have had these on Libertads and Isle of Man Viking on Horseback and they DO NOT COME OFF WITH Jewel luster.
Well, just Love coins, period.
How long did you let them soak ?
I'll go with the "expert." I'm sure he has conserved many more gold coins than I.
Hint: Why put a chemical on an entire coin to remove a spot or three?
Insider: as you don't know me, I will let that pass.
I soaked them about two to three hours; I have entire 4 coin proof sets that are afflicted, and a couple of Libertad currency uncs also.
Well, just Love coins, period.
I ASSUME that anyone who:
Is qualified to be thought an "expert" by me. If I wished to "slam" you, I would have used "Ex-Pert." This term refers to something posted by a "little drip under pressure."
I have a feeling that the "experts" at PCGS could fix your coins for you. Hopefully, they will not be soaked as IMO and yours it does not ALWAYS work.
Tarn-X tarnish remover is about 6% Thiourea and 4% Sulfamic acid by weight, so basic neutralization and a thorough distilled water rinse sure seems like good advice. I assume the recommendation to soak in this stuff that long is only intended to be safe for .9999 gold?
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Will PCGS reduce the grade for a small red "copper" spot? Has anyone successfully or not asked PCGS to conserve a modern gold coin with such a spot? Would it be the best strategy to submit for first conservation and then grading?
Following up: If you bought a raw 2008 gold buffalo on Ebay, and it arrived with a small red copper spot, would you try returning it to the seller? What if the seller doesn't accept returns?
I tried the tap water and baking soda in dish. Nuke in microwave for a couple minutes. Drop piece of aluminum foil in solution after removing. Drop coin onto foil for a couple minutes and voila. Rinse with tap water. Pat dry.
Great job "TwoSides2aCoin," you got it all off except for just a tiny faint bit of residue at the center of the largest darkest spot. Might a repeat treatment take care of that too? Please explain about the aluminum foil, why that? Thanks!
Botanist: I'm not a chemist, but .... there is a reaction between the aluminum foil and the heated solution (bubbling off the coin occurs ). My suspicion is that the gold isn't harmed by the heating (baking soda), but the foreign substance attaching itself to the gold is chemically (magically) removed. I was impressed, anyway. And thanks to 7Jaguars for sharing this tidbit. Miss you insider2, too.
Back to the "dipping". (OP). I tried dip on a gold Kennedy with the same sort of red spots, once. It didn't help. I didn't know this process, and in auction, sold the coin in the OGP. Got spot price on eBay.... C'est la vie.