What is the greatest NFL team of all time?
doubledragon
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Which NFL team is the greatest of all time up to this point? I'm not talking about dynasties, I'm talking about single season. No picking the 72 Dolphins because they are the only unbeaten team, and that's the easy way out. Yes, I know you're upset that the 72 Dolphins aren't allowed in this discussion, but I'm sorry, your application for their inclusion in this discussion has been denied.
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So then what you REALLY want to know is who was the SECOND greatest team in NFL history?
I'm sorry Joe, but I don't consider the 72 Dolphins to be the greatest team of all time. Yes, they were unbeaten, but in todays game they sure as heck wouldn't be unbeaten. Nope, not even close.
Ok, I'll allow the 72 Dolphins in the discussion, because I guess it's only fair.
I'd go with the 2004 Patriots. Finished 14-2,then in the playoffs held Manning's 49td-season Colts to just 3 points,a week later put up 41pts on the #1 scoring defense in Pittsburgh,then finished it off by beating the Eagles in the SB.
I'd then have the '89 49ers & '85 Bears right behind NE.
edit: forgot to mention that '04 Pats team was the 2nd of back to back SB wins too.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Mr. Bradshaw and the 1970's Steelers.
The 72 Fin's were not that great...….teally.
Easy- the 1992 Cowboys!
2008 Detroit Lions
ETA: It's tough to lose every single week, they really had to try hard to accomplish it.
Somebody couldn't be bothered to read through the second sentence
91' Redskins have to be up there. That offense was stacked with Rypien, Byner, Monk, Sanders, Clark, and the Hogs on the line. The defense allowed under 20 points 12 times during the regular season including 3 shutouts. They then ripped right through the playoffs winning their 3 games by 17, 31, and 13 to win the super bowl.
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Guilty.
These guys are my pick. The Lions were 12-4 that year and beat the AFC champion Bills in Buffalo. Washington beat them by (I think) 173 points in the NFC title game. And could have won by 300. 9 years out of 10, Detroit wins the Super Bowl. Instead they got taken behind the woodshed and haven't won a playoff game since.
I met Mark Rypien many years later at a Spokane Indians game. Told him I was a huge Lions fan. Told him he broke my heart and "you guys kicked our butts that year". He got this big grin on his face and said "yeah, we did". He was super nice so I almost forgive him.
1964 Cleveland Browns
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
I wasn't voting for them, just saying they shouldn't be excluded.
78 Steelers
Honorable mention - 85 Bears
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
1985 Bears.
They didn't just beat teams, they beat them up.
Yes, they were unbeaten, but in todays game they sure as heck wouldn't be unbeaten. Nope, not even close.
if you adhere to this single point then you render any meaningful discussion moot. consider --- we can't consider the 1972 Miami Dolphins, because they would lose to Teams of other eras, but we can consider Teams of other eras because they would't lose to Teams of other eras.
that's ludicrous.
if we are to have this discussion and have it make any sense, then any Team MUST be considered only in the year they played against those same Teams. I think one of the most dominating Teams I have seen were those 1985 Chicago Bears, they really dominated on both sides of the ball. after them I'd think one of those late 1970's Steelers' Teams were quite good.
although I'm a Cleveland Browns fan, so it'll seem I'm biased, the 1950 Cleveland Browns need some consideration. they came into the NFL and the League did what they could to show them up, scheduling their fist game against the defending Champion in Philadelphia. Cleveland blindsided the Eagles and won going away, 35-10 on their way to a 10-2 season. the losses were both to the NY Giants by a combined total of 10 points, 6-0 and 17-13.
In the playoffs the Browns gained revenge over the Giants 8-3 and defeated the LA Rams in Cleveland 30-28. In a strange twist, the Rams had moved to LA from Cleveland in 1946. They were also one of the best Teams in history if you go by statistics and the players on offense. if you look at the rosters of the two Teams they are dotted with HOF'ers and consider this: the Rams averaged 38.8 points per game in 1950, an NFL record that I think still stands today, while playing only 12 games. I'm not sure, but I think my Dad was at the game with some brothers, uncles and cousins, the same guys I attended games with about 15 years later.
+1
I'll go with 1985 Bears.
1989 49ers honorable mention.
Best team to not win the Super Bowl 1969 Vikings.
the Rams averaged 38.8 points per game in 1950
Wow - never knew that! That is just an insane amount especially back then
I would have to say the 2007 Patriots are the best team to not win the Super Bowl. If it wasn't for a lucky catch, they would be the greatest team of all time, and this discussion would be null and void.
61 Packers.....11 HOFers
Vikings had the #1 offense and #1 defense in 1969.
Patriots had the #1 offense and #4 defense in 2007.
Packers were #1 offense and #2 defense in 1961, they might have been better the next year at #1 and #1.
Bears were #2 on offense and #1 on defense in 1985.
49ers were #1 on offense and #3 on defense in 1989.
Steelers were #5 on offense and #1 on defense in 1978.
Dolphins were #1 on offense and #1 on defense in 1972.
Redskins were #1 on offense and #2 on defense in 1991.
Cowboys were #2 on offense and #5 on defense in 1992, they were #2 and #2 the next year.
Browns were #2 on offense and #5 on defense in 1964.
Rams were #1 in offense and #9 on defense in 1950.
With all due respect, I am sick to death of this argument.
It has absolutely no meaning whatsoever, and yet gets used over and over again.
Players and teams simply cannot be measured against others that played DECADES earlier/later;
IF you could take the 1972 Dolphins directly into the year 1985 to play the Bears, they would probably lose, but IF the players on the 1972 Dolphins grew up in the late 1970's and all things being equal from a training and coaching (etc) standpoint, they could very well have been even BETTER.
The Dolphins played the only teams available, had the #1 regular season offense and defense, were undefeated and won the Super Bowl. No other team has ever accomplished this feat. Yet no one here (including me) picks them at #1.
It's kind of like saying Carrol Shelby couldn't have won any races in today's sport because he drove slower, poorer handling cars. DUH!
The 1962 Packers would have to be considered as one of the best of all time, with the #1 offense and defense and the Championship, while losing only one game to a very good Lion team.
FANTASTIC points all around!
Upon looking at the Otto Graham teams you will see one of the great dynasties of all time that seldom, if ever gets mentioned.
Browns had #4 offense and the #2 defense in 1950 and won the championship..
Browns were #3 on offense and #1 on defense in 1951 and lost to the Rams in the title game.
Browns were #3 on offense and #2 on defense in 1952 and lost to the Lions in the title game.
Browns were #4 on offense and #1 on defense in 1953 and lost to the Lions in the title game by one point.
Browns were #2 on offense and #1 on defense in 1954 and obliterated the Lions in the championship 56-10.
Browns were #1 on offense and #1 on defense in 1955 and dominated the Rams in the championship 38-14.
Graham retires. Offense drops to #11 defense remains at #1 and they drop to 5-7.
Jim Brown shows up in 1957 (great year BTW), offense jumps back up to #3 while defense remains at #1 (for the 5th straight year and 8th straight year at #1 or #2!) and they get destroyed in the championship by the Lions.
The Lions and Browns were the best two teams for quite a while!
I would pick either the 1954 or 1955 teams as the pinnacle of those years. WOW, they had a run! What a defense, unbelievable.
everyone knows who my favorite team is, so i'm not going to sit here and spew an idiotic, partial rant. instead, i'll insert a fact that very few people are aware of: in '85 when the Bears had arguably the best D in the history of the game and won the Super Bowl, they were without two of their best starters on defense for the entire season due to contract disputes -- Al Harris (DE) and Todd Bell (SS). if they had had those two guys in the lineup, the dominance would have been even more profound.
in fact, Bell (RIP) was my second favorite player behind Sweetness (RIP). i'd be willing to bet that guys like @keets and @Brick remember him, seeing as he played college ball at OSU. he was cast out of the same mold as Ronnie Lott. i can close my eyes and still picture him laying a wide receiver's ass out coming across the middle. he was a ruthless mother. just imagine that defense with this enforcer roaming the middle of the field?
i remember this play vividly, but hadn't seen it in decades. it's interesting watching it again all these years later. first off, he almost killed Joe Washington. second, no flag. third, ruled a fumble. my how the game has changed, lol.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Ok fellas, fair enough about the different eras, I see your point. I remember I was watching the Fox NFL pregame show a few years back, and they asked Jimmy Johnson to pick what team he thought was the greatest of all time, and he picked two teams- the first was the 1993 Dallas Cowboys and the second was the 1979 Pittsburgh Steelers. It's always interesting to see who everyone believes is the greatest team.
Lol, two teams he was coaching/coordinating at the time.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
😂😂 I couldn't help but laugh as well.
I laughed as soon as I read "they asked Jimmy Johnson" as I'd bet a lot of others did.
1950’s, Browns, 1960’s Packers, 1970’s Steelers, 1980’s 49’ers, 1990’s Cowboys, 2000’s Patriots, 2010’s Patriots
1962 Green Bay Packers.
1986 Giants
14-2 record
NFC East Champions
Coach - Bill Parcells
D coordinator- Bill Bellichek
Beat 49ers 49-3 in divisional round
Beat Redskins 17-0 in NFC Championship
Beat Broncos 39-20 in SuperBowl
Notable D - Lawrence Taylor, Carl Banks, Leonard Marshall, Harry Carson, Jim Burt, Mark Collins
Notable O - Phil Simms, Mark Bavaro, Bart Oates, Joe Morris, Brad Benson, Phil McConkey, Sean Landetta
(That’s beating Montana AND Elway in the same run.!)
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They were #8 on offense and #2 on defense. Kind of a stretch to say they were an all time best team.
That was a nice finish.
Tim might be worse than me with his homerism.
Lawrence Taylor is in the discussion for greatest football player of all time - one of only a handful of defensive players that can say that. This was his MVP season and HIS presence alone makes this team worthy.
By the way - In this fantasy discussion - are we playing real football? Or can’t hit the players too hard football of this new century.
I’d be nervous about any modern Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner and Tom Brady led teams if they’re going to be allowed to hit them - both during and after plays - anywhere about the head, knees, defenseless, in the pocket, on the run and sliding.
I have it on good authority that Lawrence Taylor won’t play under the newer, wimpier set of rules.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
By the way - In this fantasy discussion - are we playing real football? Or can’t hit the players too hard football of this new century.
this is something I always bring up when the discussion is about players over different eras. I'm less concerned about it with Teams but it is a good point. as far as players, I think the rules mainly affect QB's, receivers, and most defensive players.
Looked like a good hit to me! Da Bears were Bad Dudes!
Which rule is that? The one where you can't smoke crack in the bathroom during games?
Sorry,low hanging fruit and I couldn't help myself lol.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I'm in the process of moving to Tampa as we speak.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
with Brady rolling into town, i think a shrewd marketing move would've been to roll back the clock and go old school........permanently........these unis (and especially the helmet) were the best
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Only if they add a TB12 logo to that feathered pirate cap.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Let's compare the 1986 Giants to the 1969 Vikings;
The Vikings defense allowed 9.5 points per game, #2 all-time. (Looking at PPG, the 69-71 defense was the best EVER, with 3 of the top 7 all time)
The Giants defense allowed 14.7 points per game
Lawrence Taylor was a stud, Harry Carson wasn't far behind, both are in the HOF.
Two other defensive stars in Jim Burt and Leonard Marshall.
Allan Page is right there with Taylor, Carl Eller and Paul Krause were both HOFers
Two other defensive stars in Gary Larson and Jim Marshall.
The Vikings scored 27 Points per game.
The Giants scored 23 Points per game.
Vikings had four Pro-Bowlers on offense, two offensive linemen who were multiple pro bowlers and one in the HOF.
Giants had three Pro-Bowlers on offense and Phil Simms, none of whom made the pro bowl more than twice.
Obviously with a SB win the Giants get the call as the better team.
If not for the loss to the giggling idiot Hank Stram and his very good and underrated Chiefs, the Vikings go from unmentioned and unnoticed to one of the all time great teams.
The difference here is a mirror of the teams themselves; Giants pretty much win the SB when they get there (only 1 loss), Vikings are 0-4.
I'm sure the era "thing" will get brought up, but there's really no way of knowing how those late 1960's early 1970's defenses would have done against today's offenses.
I’ll say!
After starting the year off 0-1, they went on to go 17-1 the rest of the way including 12 straight wins that only ended because the SuperBowl is the last game of the season.
@perkdog
Per Wikipedia...
The 1986 New York Giants are considered one of the greatest NFL teams of all time, being recognized by the NFL Films series America's Game as the 13th greatest Super Bowl Champion, as well as being selected as the eighth greatest NFL team of all time by readers in a "Page 2" article on ESPN.com. In 2010, the team was tied for fifth in ESPN.com's NFL Super League, a project that ranked the 16 greatest NFL Super Bowl winning teams using computer simulations of a season of play between these teams, and were ranked eighth in The Ultimate Super Rankings, a 2007 ESPN ranking of the top 80 Super Bowl era NFL teams.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
They actually can't - this year anyway. The NFL has rules having to do with helmets and how many different ones you can use each year. Anyway, basically, if you request a change to your helmets, you have to wait a year. So Tampa can't have the creamsicle unis - unless they want to use mismatched helmets, which might be against the rules - until 2021. My understanding is that they plan to use them in 2021.
https://uni-watch.com/an-faq-for-the-nfls-helmet-rule/
There is no question they were a great team, just giving you hard time buddy
Of the 4 times they won, I think the other 3 championship teams were solid teams but certainly not all time greats.
In the losing SB, I made a bet to do shots on score changes in the Giants-Ravens Super Bowl against a Ravens fan. I on Ravens, he on Giants.
He drove home happy, but for me the second half is blurry and then black.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
A second nomination for best team to not win SB.
Great video for Vikings fans.
Bitter end to season.
https://www.vikings.com/video/brett-favre-highlights-from-his-first-game-against-the-packers-as-a-viking?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=exchange
All great choice, no correct answer. If you’re looking for perfection the ‘72 Dolphins have to be the choice. If you’re speaking strictly on greatness the ‘61 Packers.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.