@jwitten said:
Why are they so much cheaper from him? Why do they not come with any sort of documentation, etc? Are these a chinese knock off?
@cardinal said:
For those interested in the latest addition to the Paris Mint's 2020 1oz silver Libertas medals, they are now available on eBay raw and in capsules at the price of $39.99 each.
It does look odd overall. The seller has sold 8 already and still has 50 available. Unless he bought a huge lot from someone dumping their collection, that is a lot available from one person at a relatively low price.
eBay buyer protection should cover anyone if these turn out to not be real, so the risk is minimal for those that want to give it a go.
But without paperwork, it is harder to know if they are genuine (I would think at least)
For those concerned about authenticity, I have purchased a few of these. I already have a few of the "Early Release" specimens slabbed by NGC, for comparison. So, once these silver rounds arrive, I will post my thoughts on their authenticity.
@jwitten said:
Why are they so much cheaper from him? Why do they not come with any sort of documentation, etc? Are these a chinese knock off?
@cardinal said:
For those interested in the latest addition to the Paris Mint's 2020 1oz silver Libertas medals, they are now available on eBay raw and in capsules at the price of $39.99 each.
It does look odd overall. The seller has sold 8 already and still has 50 available. Unless he bought a huge lot from someone dumping their collection, that is a lot available from one person at a relatively low price.
eBay buyer protection should cover anyone if these turn out to not be real, so the risk is minimal for those that want to give it a go.
But without paperwork, it is harder to know if they are genuine (I would think at least)
I don’t think the paperwork makes much of a difference as that would be even easier to replicate (or to use real COAs and fake coins-like with some of the fake Proof Silver Eagles).
We will see what happens when @cardinal has a chance to examine these in hand.
Is it possible these are ones that couldn’t make it into NGC holders? Perhaps 68’s or 67’s?
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I sent this message to him:
"Are these the 2020 strikes? Where did you get them, and how can you price them well below other people? Do they come with documentation? I am interested in some, just curious.
Thanks!"
His response:
"Hello. I have done an extensive amount of research on these. They are .999 silver, whereas the originals are supposed to be.950. They weigh properly, but since I cannot verify for sure I AM SELLING AS MODERN COMMEMORATIVES, AND HAVE PRICED THEM ACCORDINGLY.
@jwitten said:
I sent this message to him:
"Are these the 2020 strikes? Where did you get them, and how can you price them well below other people? Do they come with documentation? I am interested in some, just curious.
Thanks!"
His response:
"Hello. I have done an extensive amount of research on these. They are .999 silver, whereas the originals are supposed to be.950. They weigh properly, but since I cannot verify for sure I AM SELLING AS MODERN COMMEMORATIVES, AND HAVE PRICED THEM ACCORDINGLY.
Thank you, buckman1209"
Sounds like it could be the 2015 version (which was 1 oz and .999 silver).
@jwitten said:
I sent this message to him:
"Are these the 2020 strikes? Where did you get them, and how can you price them well below other people? Do they come with documentation? I am interested in some, just curious.
Thanks!"
His response:
"Hello. I have done an extensive amount of research on these. They are .999 silver, whereas the originals are supposed to be.950. They weigh properly, but since I cannot verify for sure I AM SELLING AS MODERN COMMEMORATIVES, AND HAVE PRICED THEM ACCORDINGLY.
Thank you, buckman1209"
Sounds like it could be the 2015 version (which was 1 oz and .999 silver).
I have the specifications of the 2015 1oz medals, and the specifications for the 2020 1oz medals. I'm supposed to receive the $39.99 ones on April 6th, and will post my comparisons.
@Gluggo said:
I said what the heck he answered me right away that there was no paperwork with the medal. I bought one too!
I agree and at $39.99, it's a minor risk, but the photos do look like Paris Mint products. My order has already shipped and is estimated to arrive this Friday. Compare that to the 2019 2oz silver Una and the Lion restrikes listed on eBay at $900 for a raw capsuled example, and up to $5,000 for a PCGS graded PR70DCAM!
They are PURE FUN to collect ..... varies in size and metal content an ABSOLUTE MUST to PLAY with; in any collection Care for one @7Jaguars?
I happened to have a few extra to entertain friends alike
Here are the pertinent specs from the MCM page for the first steps in verifying the Ebay offering
The Post Office says my Ebay example will arrive Saturday. The first discrepancy I note is the Ag fineness. Ebay one says .999, MCM shows .950. Anybody have access to a handheld XRF Analyzer and a precision gram scale?
@Kudbegud said:
Here are the pertinent specs from the MCM page for the first steps in verifying the Ebay offering
The Post Office says my Ebay example will arrive Saturday. The first discrepancy I note is the Ag fineness. Ebay one says .999, MCM shows .950. Anybody have access to a handheld XRF Analyzer and a precision gram scale?
If it is real, I would compare it to the 2015 which was .999 not the 2020 (which is .950);
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS). Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
@Kudbegud said:
Here are the pertinent specs from the MCM page for the first steps in verifying the Ebay offering
The Post Office says my Ebay example will arrive Saturday. The first discrepancy I note is the Ag fineness. Ebay one says .999, MCM shows .950. Anybody have access to a handheld XRF Analyzer and a precision gram scale?
If it is real, I would compare it to the 2015 which was .999 not the 2020 (which is .950);
(picture from random eBay sale)
That is all correct! So, when I get my $39.99 medals I can determine if they are from 2015, 2020, or something else!
@U1chicago & @cardinal
The specs between 2015 & 2020 are the same. The basic first check are these specs = Diameter & Weight. That's why I posted this snip from MCM. Every one can do these quick tests. A visual comparison under magnification of a 2015, if you have one, and the Ebay 2020, could show differences that might indicate the Ebay one is fake. I'm not expecting the MCM one to arrive by Saturday. The clue is it hasn't shipped yet.
The hard part is determining between 0.950 and 0.999 fine silver. Does any one have access to an XRF Analyzer ? This could be proof positive of a counterfeit.
I'll be watching this thread to see the reports from others posters to this thread.
@Kudbegud said: @U1chicago & @cardinal
The specs between 2015 & 2020 are the same. The basic first check are these specs = Diameter & Weight. That's why I posted this snip from MCM. Every one can do these quick tests. A visual comparison under magnification of a 2015, if you have one, and the Ebay 2020, could show differences that might indicate the Ebay one is fake. I'm not expecting the MCM one to arrive by Saturday. The clue is it hasn't shipped yet.
The hard part is determining between 0.950 and 0.999 fine silver. Does any one have access to an XRF Analyzer ? This could be proof positive of a counterfeit.
I'll be watching this thread to see the reports from others posters to this thread.
I'm now wondering if the specs from MCM aren't fully correct for the 2020. If it is 1 oz of 0.950 Silver, the total weight should be more than 31.1035 grams (32.7405) as 5% of the weight will be some non silver medal.
Or maybe it is correct and the weight is 31.1035 but the silver content is only 29.55 (95% of 1 oz).
The 2015 being 1 oz of 0.999 Silver should be pretty close to 31.1035 grams.
It should be interesting to get more details soon.
@Kudbegud said: @U1chicago & @cardinal
The specs between 2015 & 2020 are the same. The basic first check are these specs = Diameter & Weight. That's why I posted this snip from MCM. Every one can do these quick tests. A visual comparison under magnification of a 2015, if you have one, and the Ebay 2020, could show differences that might indicate the Ebay one is fake. I'm not expecting the MCM one to arrive by Saturday. The clue is it hasn't shipped yet.
The hard part is determining between 0.950 and 0.999 fine silver. Does any one have access to an XRF Analyzer ? This could be proof positive of a counterfeit.
I'll be watching this thread to see the reports from others posters to this thread.
I'm now wondering if the specs from MCM aren't fully correct for the 2020. If it is 1 oz of 0.950 Silver, the total weight should be more than 31.1035 grams (32.7405) as 5% of the weight will be some non silver medal.
Or maybe it is correct and the weight is 31.1035 but the silver content is only 29.55 (95% of 1 oz).
The 2015 being 1 oz of 0.999 Silver should be pretty close to 31.1035 grams.
It should be interesting to get more details soon.
Generally, when a medal is stated at some specific weight, that is the total weight of the medal. So, the 2020 1oz silver Libertas medals are 1oz of silver that had been refined to be 0.950 pure silver, and thus NOT containing 1 full troy ounce of pure silver alloyed with something else added to bring it up to a weight above 1 troy ounce.
@Kudbegud said: @U1chicago & @cardinal
The specs between 2015 & 2020 are the same. The basic first check are these specs = Diameter & Weight. That's why I posted this snip from MCM. Every one can do these quick tests. A visual comparison under magnification of a 2015, if you have one, and the Ebay 2020, could show differences that might indicate the Ebay one is fake. I'm not expecting the MCM one to arrive by Saturday. The clue is it hasn't shipped yet.
The hard part is determining between 0.950 and 0.999 fine silver. Does any one have access to an XRF Analyzer ? This could be proof positive of a counterfeit.
I'll be watching this thread to see the reports from others posters to this thread.
I'm now wondering if the specs from MCM aren't fully correct for the 2020. If it is 1 oz of 0.950 Silver, the total weight should be more than 31.1035 grams (32.7405) as 5% of the weight will be some non silver medal.
Or maybe it is correct and the weight is 31.1035 but the silver content is only 29.55 (95% of 1 oz).
The 2015 being 1 oz of 0.999 Silver should be pretty close to 31.1035 grams.
It should be interesting to get more details soon.
Generally, when a medal is stated at some specific weight, that is the total weight of the medal. So, the 2020 1oz silver Libertas medals are 1oz of silver that had been refined to be 0.950 pure silver, and thus NOT containing 1 full troy ounce of pure silver alloyed with something else added to bring it up to a weight above 1 troy ounce.
That’s what I figured is the case. However there is some room for confusion based on the specifics provided by MCM.
I like the design and have a 5 oz slabbed 2014? I think. My point is that there is not a lot of variance in what are all restrikes. More power to those that collect them.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@7Jaguars said:
I like the design and have a 5 oz slabbed 2014? I think. My point is that there is not a lot of variance in what are all restrikes. More power to those that collect them.
You are correct! The 5 oz medals were issued in 2014.
This may explain the $39.99 Libertas Americana silver rounds. Perhaps they are from 2015 - if they are truly 0.999 silver. That said, supposedly the 2020 silver issue was to have 5,000 minted. On eBay (and at MCM) there were offerings of NGC graded pieces and also raw specimens in capsules. Clearly, NGC got the contract to slab these. Checking the NGC Pop Report, it shows that NGC has graded 117 pieces at PF70UC, and NONE in any lower grade. That leaves 4,883 raw specimens!
The $39.99 specimens I ordered are now scheduled to be delivered today, and will post my comments promptly.
@cardinal when I first saw it listed for sale I couldn’t figure out if it was a listing error or trying to
sell a knock off. So I went ahead a bought 2 at $39 each.
Today for giggles I wrote the seller and asked what year they are and his rely was.
‘“New message from: buckman1209 Top Rated Seller(1,302Red Star)
I believe them to be 2020, but cannot verify that.’
.
.
So I would say they are 2020. For the price I just cannot complain.
Here is a picture of the 2015 Libertas (at left) and the $39.99 special (at right). The diameters are identical!
This one shows the NGC slabbed 2020 Libertas (at left) and the $39.99 special (at right). The diameters are identical.
For weight comparisons, here’s the $38.99 special weighing in at 31.03 grams.
This is the slabbed 2020 piece, weighing in at 67.73 grams.
I do not have an empty NGC slab with a black insert, but I do have a complete NGC slab with a white insert. It weighed in at 41.41 grams, but the insert has more mass than the slab with the 2020 medal. (The empty holder had a small token inside - now in a PCGS slab).
The 67.73 gram slab outweighs the empty slab by 26.32 grams - just 4.71 grams lighter than the $39.99 special. On that basis, I figure the different medals (2015, 2020, and the unlabeled silver rounds) all weigh the same. I cannot identify the purity of the silver rounds, and so I can't say for certain if they were leftovers from 2015, or leftovers from 2020. That being said, comparing the details of the designs, I fully believe the silver rounds were struck by the Paris Mint with the same dies.
@Kudbegud said: @cardinal - How was the $39 one packaged? A flip? A capsule? Some other holder?
If you look at the second photo, the medal on the right is the $39 one. It came in the capsule you see in the picture, and the capsule was in a small ziplock bag.
@jwitten said:
I picked up two. Now I'm wishing I got more!
Sounds a lot like TP regrets Ive been hearing
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@jwitten said:
Got mine too. Yall take better pics, but here is mine. Anyone have the ability to make sure they are really silver? I'm still suspicious of the price.
To my eyes, your pics are awesome!
About the silver content, silver bullion is under $15 per troy ounce, so the $39.99 price more than double the value of silver, and seems to fit into a "silver round" production issue. I truly doubt that these are knockoffs, as the design is quite sharp and matches precisely with the NGC-slabbed 2020 medals.
Comments
@U1chicago
@jwitten
For those concerned about authenticity, I have purchased a few of these. I already have a few of the "Early Release" specimens slabbed by NGC, for comparison. So, once these silver rounds arrive, I will post my thoughts on their authenticity.
I don’t think the paperwork makes much of a difference as that would be even easier to replicate (or to use real COAs and fake coins-like with some of the fake Proof Silver Eagles).
We will see what happens when @cardinal has a chance to examine these in hand.
Is it possible these are ones that couldn’t make it into NGC holders? Perhaps 68’s or 67’s?
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I sent this message to him:
"Are these the 2020 strikes? Where did you get them, and how can you price them well below other people? Do they come with documentation? I am interested in some, just curious.
Thanks!"
His response:
"Hello. I have done an extensive amount of research on these. They are .999 silver, whereas the originals are supposed to be.950. They weigh properly, but since I cannot verify for sure I AM SELLING AS MODERN COMMEMORATIVES, AND HAVE PRICED THEM ACCORDINGLY.
Thank you, buckman1209"
Sounds like it could be the 2015 version (which was 1 oz and .999 silver).
IT IS NOT A GOOD SIGN WHEN SELLERS USE ALL CAPS but we’ll see
@jwitten
@U1chicago
I have the specifications of the 2015 1oz medals, and the specifications for the 2020 1oz medals. I'm supposed to receive the $39.99 ones on April 6th, and will post my comparisons.
MAYBE HIS KEYBOARD WAS JUST BROKEN
I don't think it's a good sign he has nearly 50 items and claims to not really know what he has.
What the heck, I bought one.
What the hell, I gotta support the restrike economy.
I said what the heck he answered me right away that there was no paperwork with the medal. I bought one too!
I agree and at $39.99, it's a minor risk, but the photos do look like Paris Mint products. My order has already shipped and is estimated to arrive this Friday. Compare that to the 2019 2oz silver Una and the Lion restrikes listed on eBay at $900 for a raw capsuled example, and up to $5,000 for a PCGS graded PR70DCAM!
Come on forum team let’s buy this guy out and show him who’s boss.
They are PURE FUN to collect ..... varies in size and metal content
an ABSOLUTE MUST to PLAY with; in any collection
Care for one @7Jaguars ?
I happened to have a few extra to entertain friends alike
@cardinal
I always admire yours .... truly
hmm .....
Here are the pertinent specs from the MCM page for the first steps in verifying the Ebay offering
The Post Office says my Ebay example will arrive Saturday. The first discrepancy I note is the Ag fineness. Ebay one says .999, MCM shows .950. Anybody have access to a handheld XRF Analyzer and a precision gram scale?
If it is real, I would compare it to the 2015 which was .999 not the 2020 (which is .950);
(picture from random eBay sale)
Well some people listened as the listing is down to just two left as of this post, including one big spender who bought 30!
I wonder how we lost @billdugan1959 to the hammer?
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Libertas Americana medal in white medal, cast copy
American Numismatic Society, 0000.999.38371
Jesse C. Kraft, Ph.D.
Resolute Americana Curator of American Numismatics
American Numismatic Society
New York City
Member of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), British Numismatic Society (BNS), New York Numismatic Club (NYNC), Early American Copper (EAC), the Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), U.S. Mexican Numismatic Association (USMNA), Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC), Token and Medal Society (TAMS), and life member of the Atlantic County Numismatic Society (ACNS).
Become a member of the American Numismatic Society!
Welcome to the Forums!
That is all correct! So, when I get my $39.99 medals I can determine if they are from 2015, 2020, or something else!
Good start to the forum for you, Jesse.
No mas, Amigos.
And now we wait for the experts to weigh in on what we just bought.. Wonder if he will be getting a lot of returns soon?
I don’t know but this has been $40 worth of good entertainment.
@U1chicago & @cardinal
The specs between 2015 & 2020 are the same. The basic first check are these specs = Diameter & Weight. That's why I posted this snip from MCM. Every one can do these quick tests. A visual comparison under magnification of a 2015, if you have one, and the Ebay 2020, could show differences that might indicate the Ebay one is fake. I'm not expecting the MCM one to arrive by Saturday. The clue is it hasn't shipped yet.
The hard part is determining between 0.950 and 0.999 fine silver. Does any one have access to an XRF Analyzer ? This could be proof positive of a counterfeit.
I'll be watching this thread to see the reports from others posters to this thread.
I'm now wondering if the specs from MCM aren't fully correct for the 2020. If it is 1 oz of 0.950 Silver, the total weight should be more than 31.1035 grams (32.7405) as 5% of the weight will be some non silver medal.
Or maybe it is correct and the weight is 31.1035 but the silver content is only 29.55 (95% of 1 oz).
The 2015 being 1 oz of 0.999 Silver should be pretty close to 31.1035 grams.
It should be interesting to get more details soon.
Generally, when a medal is stated at some specific weight, that is the total weight of the medal. So, the 2020 1oz silver Libertas medals are 1oz of silver that had been refined to be 0.950 pure silver, and thus NOT containing 1 full troy ounce of pure silver alloyed with something else added to bring it up to a weight above 1 troy ounce.
That’s what I figured is the case. However there is some room for confusion based on the specifics provided by MCM.
I like the design and have a 5 oz slabbed 2014? I think. My point is that there is not a lot of variance in what are all restrikes. More power to those that collect them.
Well, just Love coins, period.
All 58 are sold so I missed out on that one
You are correct! The 5 oz medals were issued in 2014.
@coinsarefun
@U1chicago
@Kudbegud
This may explain the $39.99 Libertas Americana silver rounds. Perhaps they are from 2015 - if they are truly 0.999 silver. That said, supposedly the 2020 silver issue was to have 5,000 minted. On eBay (and at MCM) there were offerings of NGC graded pieces and also raw specimens in capsules. Clearly, NGC got the contract to slab these. Checking the NGC Pop Report, it shows that NGC has graded 117 pieces at PF70UC, and NONE in any lower grade. That leaves 4,883 raw specimens!
The $39.99 specimens I ordered are now scheduled to be delivered today, and will post my comments promptly.
@cardinal when I first saw it listed for sale I couldn’t figure out if it was a listing error or trying to
sell a knock off. So I went ahead a bought 2 at $39 each.
Today for giggles I wrote the seller and asked what year they are and his rely was.
‘“New message from: buckman1209 Top Rated Seller(1,302Red Star)
I believe them to be 2020, but cannot verify that.’
.
.
So I would say they are 2020. For the price I just cannot complain.
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
My $39.99 specials did arrive today!
Here is a picture of the 2015 Libertas (at left) and the $39.99 special (at right). The diameters are identical!
This one shows the NGC slabbed 2020 Libertas (at left) and the $39.99 special (at right). The diameters are identical.
For weight comparisons, here’s the $38.99 special weighing in at 31.03 grams.
This is the slabbed 2020 piece, weighing in at 67.73 grams.
I do not have an empty NGC slab with a black insert, but I do have a complete NGC slab with a white insert. It weighed in at 41.41 grams, but the insert has more mass than the slab with the 2020 medal. (The empty holder had a small token inside - now in a PCGS slab).
The 67.73 gram slab outweighs the empty slab by 26.32 grams - just 4.71 grams lighter than the $39.99 special. On that basis, I figure the different medals (2015, 2020, and the unlabeled silver rounds) all weigh the same. I cannot identify the purity of the silver rounds, and so I can't say for certain if they were leftovers from 2015, or leftovers from 2020. That being said, comparing the details of the designs, I fully believe the silver rounds were struck by the Paris Mint with the same dies.
@cardinal - How was the $39 one packaged? A flip? A capsule? Some other holder?
If you look at the second photo, the medal on the right is the $39 one. It came in the capsule you see in the picture, and the capsule was in a small ziplock bag.
Mine arrived in the mail today. Nice little medal.
I picked up two. Now I'm wishing I got more!
Sounds a lot like TP regrets Ive been hearing
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I like them.
.
.
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
So do I. Got mine. Dig it. A poor man’s Libertas.
I got mine in today here is a quick shot.
Got mine too. Yall take better pics, but here is mine. Anyone have the ability to make sure they are really silver? I'm still suspicious of the price.
To my eyes, your pics are awesome!
About the silver content, silver bullion is under $15 per troy ounce, so the $39.99 price more than double the value of silver, and seems to fit into a "silver round" production issue. I truly doubt that these are knockoffs, as the design is quite sharp and matches precisely with the NGC-slabbed 2020 medals.
I saw a libertas design on an old museum token from PA. Have you seen that one?