@BillDugan1959 said:
Because of the past actions of the Federal Reserve Bank in the several financial crisis since 1987, people have now been trained that "things always come back". That's an attitude that is very dangerous to one's wealth.
@jmlanzaf Your comment "The value of any asset is what you can get for it at that moment in time, not what you presume it might be worth if you just hold it long enough." is the best comment in this thread so far, although Mark Feld's comments are highly accurate too.
I’m with Bill as well
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@mustangmanbob said:
I have been collecting for about 55 years, and have a pretty decent collection, both raw and a lot of slabbed, including a nice large chunk of gold. Earlier in the year, I totalled it all up, so I would have an idea, and was kinda amazed at the number, when it was all put together.
When the Dow tanked the other day, the entire value of my collection "disappeared" from my 401K in 7 minutes. But between SWMBO and myself, there is nothing, coins, stocks, land, etc. that has to be sold for 5+ years to pay bills, so no day to day impact.
What I am doing is buying stuff to build some inventory in my classic car business. My guess is people selling stuff to go buy toilet paper.
I didn't think you could lose money on stock unless you "sold"???
You thought wrong, even though the loss is a paper loss/unrecognized loss until you actually sell. If you bought a stock for $10 and it’s at $7, try selling it at $10 and let me know how you do.😉 While you might later regain that loss, you could also lose more, before you sell.
So I am right. If you don't sell....you don't lose. The market will go back up to where it was and more,
You have lost the money, whether you sell or not. The question is whether you will regain it and it’s not a given that you will.
Under your way of thinking - and I realize many others think the same - If you buy stock in a company that goes bankrupt, the stock goes to $0, and you never sell it, so you haven’t lost the money. Does that really make sense to you?
This.
The value of any asset is what you can get for it at that moment in time, not what you presume it might be worth if you just hold it long enough.
I agree with Dimeman. He hasn't "lost" money until he no longer owns the stock which sells for a "loss."
If he keeps the stock and it goes up in the future, did he really lose anything?
You two yahoos are talking about "value." And that is different
I dare Dimeman to spend the money he hasn't lost.
That is the whole point......about selling and not selling!
No, it's the opposite point.
If I have $50,000 worth of stock (no matter what I paid for it), I could borrow $50,000 against the stock even without selling it. It's not about selling or not selling, it is what value it has this minute. If I spend $50,000 on a stock now worth $25,000, I can only borrow $25,000 against it. My liquidity is always a function of current value, not the price paid or the presumed value at a later date.
Forget the up and down. You can be reasonably certain that if you bought the DOW at 29,000 a couple weeks ago it will be worth 50,000 in a decade or so. That doesn't make it worth 50,000 today. Your assumption that your asset will recover its value later is exactly the same calculation. You "didn't lose" money because the asset you paid 29,000 for that is now worth 23,000 is going to eventually be worth 29,000 again. You are assuming future value that doesn't exist today.
@mustangmanbob said:
I have been collecting for about 55 years, and have a pretty decent collection, both raw and a lot of slabbed, including a nice large chunk of gold. Earlier in the year, I totalled it all up, so I would have an idea, and was kinda amazed at the number, when it was all put together.
When the Dow tanked the other day, the entire value of my collection "disappeared" from my 401K in 7 minutes. But between SWMBO and myself, there is nothing, coins, stocks, land, etc. that has to be sold for 5+ years to pay bills, so no day to day impact.
What I am doing is buying stuff to build some inventory in my classic car business. My guess is people selling stuff to go buy toilet paper.
I didn't think you could lose money on stock unless you "sold"???
You thought wrong, even though the loss is a paper loss/unrecognized loss until you actually sell. If you bought a stock for $10 and it’s at $7, try selling it at $10 and let me know how you do.😉 While you might later regain that loss, you could also lose more, before you sell.
So I am right. If you don't sell....you don't lose. The market will go back up to where it was and more,
You have lost the money, whether you sell or not. The question is whether you will regain it and it’s not a given that you will.
Under your way of thinking - and I realize many others think the same - If you buy stock in a company that goes bankrupt, the stock goes to $0, and you never sell it, so you haven’t lost the money. Does that really make sense to you?
Mark that is completely different and you know it! My example is say you had money in the DOW in 2008 when it was at 13K and it dropped to 6K.....you kept it and it went to almost 30K......went to 21K then up to 23K. Total gain at this time would be 10K from the high in 2009. And it will go back up to 30K and beyond...…...if you didn't sell at any point!
Now is actually the time to buy.
It’s not different, because you don’t consider a loss to have taken place, unless there’s been a sale. And if your stock becomes and remains worthless, there’s no sale. But an unrecognized/paper loss doesn’t always come back to a smaller loss, a break even or a gain.
And in your example in your above post, how can you say a “total gain at this time would be 10K..” when there’s been no sale? You can’t have it both ways. If there’s no loss until there’s a sale, there’s also no gain until there’s a sale.
Mark....the key words in my post were "at this time".
@mustangmanbob said:
I have been collecting for about 55 years, and have a pretty decent collection, both raw and a lot of slabbed, including a nice large chunk of gold. Earlier in the year, I totalled it all up, so I would have an idea, and was kinda amazed at the number, when it was all put together.
When the Dow tanked the other day, the entire value of my collection "disappeared" from my 401K in 7 minutes. But between SWMBO and myself, there is nothing, coins, stocks, land, etc. that has to be sold for 5+ years to pay bills, so no day to day impact.
What I am doing is buying stuff to build some inventory in my classic car business. My guess is people selling stuff to go buy toilet paper.
I didn't think you could lose money on stock unless you "sold"???
You thought wrong, even though the loss is a paper loss/unrecognized loss until you actually sell. If you bought a stock for $10 and it’s at $7, try selling it at $10 and let me know how you do.😉 While you might later regain that loss, you could also lose more, before you sell.
So I am right. If you don't sell....you don't lose. The market will go back up to where it was and more,
You have lost the money, whether you sell or not. The question is whether you will regain it and it’s not a given that you will.
Under your way of thinking - and I realize many others think the same - If you buy stock in a company that goes bankrupt, the stock goes to $0, and you never sell it, so you haven’t lost the money. Does that really make sense to you?
Mark that is completely different and you know it! My example is say you had money in the DOW in 2008 when it was at 13K and it dropped to 6K.....you kept it and it went to almost 30K......went to 21K then up to 23K. Total gain at this time would be 10K from the high in 2009. And it will go back up to 30K and beyond...…...if you didn't sell at any point!
Now is actually the time to buy.
It’s not different, because you don’t consider a loss to have taken place, unless there’s been a sale. And if your stock becomes and remains worthless, there’s no sale. But an unrecognized/paper loss doesn’t always come back to a smaller loss, a break even or a gain.
And in your example in your above post, how can you say a “total gain at this time would be 10K..” when there’s been no sale? You can’t have it both ways. If there’s no loss until there’s a sale, there’s also no gain until there’s a sale.
Mark....the key words in my post were "at this time".
So you can have a gain “at this time”, but not a loss “at this time”? The reality is that you can have either, even if you haven’t sold.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I am well funded, but you wouldn't know that by coming in, I sell the crap as fast I get it, if a customer is not walking out the door with the bullion, its on the way to the refinery twice a week if necessary, you ask why, well take a look at this week. If I would have bought a bunch of gold on Monday, I would be at a 150 oz loss as today, No thanks.
I sure am glad I got out of the stock market in 1996! (especialy after reading this back and forth) I put that money into my coin collection and coin business! I would wager if I hadn't done that my net worth would be 10% of what it is now!
Whatever. Do you know that your local plumber cannot get latex gloves now? Would YOU like to work on YOUR sewer system without latex gloves? Some things are more important than coins. Time to appreciate the little guy. The men who can't afford the luxury but still keep things in order and keep on working to feed their family Think about it.......you might want to pay those guys a little something extra. Or at least give them the respect they deserve. Just a thought.
@amwldcoin said:
I sure am glad I got out of the stock market in 1996! (especialy after reading this back and forth) I put that money into my coin collection and coin business! I would wager if I hadn't done that my net worth would be 10% of what it is now!
I got wiped out day trading stocks in the internet boom/bust.
I have not bought stocks since then except for my wife's 401K which I day traded last Thursday and Friday.
Market conditions uncontrolled by me wiped out my photo business.
The coin business has been very good to me.
Stocks will be a very good buy at 50% off the top.
Well, The big boom for me was I was collecting World Coins when no one wanted them! That was huge! I also funded my inventory...which was kindda a steady tic toc...not getting rich but eventually went full time in 2000(I call it being semi-retired!)
@amwldcoin said:
I sure am glad I got out of the stock market in 1996! (especialy after reading this back and forth) I put that money into my coin collection and coin business! I would wager if I hadn't done that my net worth would be 10% of what it is now!
I got wiped out day trading stocks in the internet boom/bust.
I have not bought stocks since then except for my wife's 401K which I day traded last Thursday and Friday.
Market conditions uncontrolled by me wiped out my photo business.
The coin business has been very good to me.
Stocks will be a very good buy at 50% off the top.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Some do not realize that we are in a bear market.
IM Strong Opinion, That market has much father to go down. We are 100% in cash right now. Zero market losses (gains actually) on this trip down.
Next stop on the dow will be 18,000
Then we go to Dow 16,000
Then perhaps we hit a Dow 0f 13,000
How much did you have to pay in taxes to be totally cash. For some the tax hit would be greater than the losses of the market.
No tax, 401K money.
In what world do you not have to pay taxes on your 401(k). If you are not 59 1/2 there’s also a 10% penalty to the government. A 401(k) is called a tax deferred annuity meaning you don’t pay the taxes until you receive the money.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Some do not realize that we are in a bear market.
IM Strong Opinion, That market has much father to go down. We are 100% in cash right now. Zero market losses (gains actually) on this trip down.
Next stop on the dow will be 18,000
Then we go to Dow 16,000
Then perhaps we hit a Dow 0f 13,000
How much did you have to pay in taxes to be totally cash. For some the tax hit would be greater than the losses of the market.
No tax, 401K money.
In what world do you not have to pay taxes on your 401(k). If you are not 59 1/2 there’s also a 10% penalty to the government. A 401(k) is called a tax deferred annuity meaning you don’t pay the taxes until you receive the money.
I did not take cash out. I moved the funds from an age based stock index fund to a market stable Captial preservation fund that actually pays 2% with no downside all within the 401K.
I made this move 1 1/2 years ago at DOW 26,000 as I foresaw the POTUS Bubble Bull Markets do not last 11 years!
Another real world example is when applying for a mortgage. During the process you will be asked to show all your assets. When they get to your stock portfolio or 401K they don’t look at what you paid for your stocks or what they were worth 3 years ago or 3 years from now. It’s what they are worth that day. That is your net worth in stocks.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
Another real world example is when applying for a mortgage. During the process you will be asked to show all your assets. When they get to your stock portfolio or 401K they don’t look at what you paid for your stocks or what they were worth 3 years ago or 3 years from now. It’s what they are worth that day. That is your net worth in stocks.
mark
Are we talking about net worth or whether or not you make or lose money without selling? Two completely different topics!
Real world examples I have seen is people panicking and selling when things drop. Only to cry later and say if I would have just held on my money would have tripled.
@Justacommeman said:
Another real world example is when applying for a mortgage. During the process you will be asked to show all your assets. When they get to your stock portfolio or 401K they don’t look at what you paid for your stocks or what they were worth 3 years ago or 3 years from now. It’s what they are worth that day. That is your net worth in stocks.
mark
Are we talking about net worth or whether or not you make or lose money without selling? Two completely different topics!
I have no idea what you are taking about. I was talking about how people view “their wealth” at any given point in time. I pray they don’t look at it on the if come.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I have no idea what you are taking about. I was talking about how people view “their wealth” at any given point in time. I pray they don’t look at it on the if come.
mark
You were agreeing with Mfeld that you can have a loss or a gain without selling. I agree with Dimeman that you don’t have a loss or gain until you sell.
I am an advocate for holding on and not and panicking. This has been a good strategy for many that I know and have known. Not so much for the people who did not.
In my mind the odds are with the people who hang on. That all might change time will tell.
To the point of the original post, it looks to me that the market is holding in pretty well under the circumstance. Just looking at auction results over the past few days and you are seeing Vf-Ef Morgans maintaining a significant premium over melt. In fact, the premium spread seems a little higher on Eagles given the price decline in metals.
The bullion and metal content purchases are going to command a premium over spot. Who believes the Fed can unleash $1 Trillion in a buying program and not eventually impact gold/silver. Type coins are a different story I'm afraid.
@Insider2 said:
I'm back from a coin shop that was not selling any bullion related items except slabbed SE. They were only buying bullion from customers.
A lot of this has nothing to do eith demand. You don't want to keep bullion in stock. With a 1% margin and 3 to 5% daily swings, any smart coin guy locks in immediately any bullion buy and it is sold 2 minutes after it is bought.
As you have explained, this is exactly why he is not selling as > @topstuf said:
@Insider2 said:
I'm back from a coin shop that was not selling any bullion related items except slabbed SE. They were only buying bullion from customers.
A lot of this has nothing to do eith demand. You don't want to keep bullion in stock. With a 1% margin and 3 to 5% daily swings, any smart coin guy locks in immediately any bullion buy and it is sold 2 minutes after it is bought.
The smart shop maintains an inventory level constantly.
Then they sell anything above that position.
Or buy when the position drops.
It means that there is ALWAYS inventory in stock to sell.
This is exactly what I heard the dealer tell a customer. He cannot replace what he sells. When He buys, most is sold off immediately to lock in the profit.
@Justacommeman said:
Another real world example is when applying for a mortgage. During the process you will be asked to show all your assets. When they get to your stock portfolio or 401K they don’t look at what you paid for your stocks or what they were worth 3 years ago or 3 years from now. It’s what they are worth that day. That is your net worth in stocks.
mark
Are we talking about net worth or whether or not you make or lose money without selling? Two completely different topics!
I have no idea what you are taking about. I was talking about how people view “their wealth” at any given point in time. I pray they don’t look at it on the if come.
mark
Always was curious what the definition of the word "wealth" constituted. Gates/Buffet type of $ or the person with $100,00.00 in the bank from working 9-5 all their life. These stock brokers on TV who advertise they will assist you in wealth mgt. never cite what that wealth number is.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Many years ago I was gifted 25 shares of GE stock. Sold it @ $20 per. $500.00 gross. If I sold it today @ $7.50, gross $187.50. Since the stock was a gift did I gain $500 when I sold it back then, or if I held till now and sold it would I gain $187.50 or lose with the difference being $500 minus $187.50 for a loss of$312.50.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@daltex said:
I can't explain how bizarre I find the notion that unrealized gains/losses have nothing to do with gains/losses.
The point I am trying to make is what you do with the unrealized gains or losses. From the gist of this thread it felt like people were panicking and advocating to sell it all before it is too late. In my opinion that is not the prudent thing to do. If I am wrong on the general feeling then I probably sound like a babbling (***).
@daltex said:
I can't explain how bizarre I find the notion that unrealized gains/losses have nothing to do with gains/losses.
The point I am trying to make is what you do with the unrealized gains or losses. From the gist of this thread it felt like people were panicking and advocating to sell it all before it is too late. In my opinion that is not the prudent thing to do. If I am wrong on the general feeling then I probably sound like a babbling (***).
I’m not going to go back through this thread, but I think I saw perhaps only one or two such posts.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Lower net assets will cause the conservative to hunker down, and the risk takers to have less to borrow against.
Loss of jobs/income will cause many to be forced to focus on only day to day expenses.
Things will come back eventually, but the income/earnings that the business world is losing due to the virus, will last longer. You have real economic and psycological factors taking place.
My prediction is discretionary spending goes way down. Coins will move at the $400 and up range, but will be sold at what would have been considered low ball pricing a few months ago.
Folks, I do not see the markets coming back (might even fall some more) for most companies until this is over or close to being on the down hill side. All the sporting events, trade shows, other events that are cancelled , travel dollars, entertainment dollars all coming to a standstill. Folks having to find somewhere to house the kids out of school , lack of work in what will be a major part of the economy. Lot of companies only keeping essential personnel for at least several weeks, etc
We just came back from eating out a the steak house, which is normally crowded, never seen the parking lot so empty, Friday at a different restaurant across town similar. They are taking precautions and doing things that require extra time and with less number of patrons, this has got to affect the bottom line.
@mustangmanbob said:
I have been collecting for about 55 years, and have a pretty decent collection, both raw and a lot of slabbed, including a nice large chunk of gold. Earlier in the year, I totalled it all up, so I would have an idea, and was kinda amazed at the number, when it was all put together.
When the Dow tanked the other day, the entire value of my collection "disappeared" from my 401K in 7 minutes. But between SWMBO and myself, there is nothing, coins, stocks, land, etc. that has to be sold for 5+ years to pay bills, so no day to day impact.
What I am doing is buying stuff to build some inventory in my classic car business. My guess is people selling stuff to go buy toilet paper.
I didn't think you could lose money on stock unless you "sold"???
You thought wrong, even though the loss is a paper loss/unrecognized loss until you actually sell. If you bought a stock for $10 and it’s at $7, try selling it at $10 and let me know how you do.😉 While you might later regain that loss, you could also lose more, before you sell.
So I am right. If you don't sell....you don't lose. The market will go back up to where it was and more,
That is speculation. What falls doesn't always come back up. Many U.S. stocks were already over priced and due for an adjustment. SARS-CoV-2 isn't helping matters any.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I hate to be the macabre one of the group, but the spike in mortality rate for SARS-CoV-2 starts progressing upward around age forty and spikes for the 60+ crowd. This seems like a large fraction of U.S. coin collectors. I think the answer to your question depends in part on the ultimate lethality rate once the dust settles for the geriatric crowd.*
*Generally in the medical community, the age for geriatric medicine is defined to start around 60 or 65 IIRC. Hence my use of the term here.
Comments
I’m with Bill as well
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
No, it's the opposite point.
If I have $50,000 worth of stock (no matter what I paid for it), I could borrow $50,000 against the stock even without selling it. It's not about selling or not selling, it is what value it has this minute. If I spend $50,000 on a stock now worth $25,000, I can only borrow $25,000 against it. My liquidity is always a function of current value, not the price paid or the presumed value at a later date.
Forget the up and down. You can be reasonably certain that if you bought the DOW at 29,000 a couple weeks ago it will be worth 50,000 in a decade or so. That doesn't make it worth 50,000 today. Your assumption that your asset will recover its value later is exactly the same calculation. You "didn't lose" money because the asset you paid 29,000 for that is now worth 23,000 is going to eventually be worth 29,000 again. You are assuming future value that doesn't exist today.
Mark....the key words in my post were "at this time".
I was fixin' to drop a nuclear bid on a coin...but I need TP more.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
So you can have a gain “at this time”, but not a loss “at this time”? The reality is that you can have either, even if you haven’t sold.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you own stock and the price doubles but you don’t sell it did you make anything?
Some do not realize that we are in a bear market.
IM Strong Opinion, That market has much father to go down. We are 100% in cash right now. Zero market losses (gains actually) on this trip down.
Next stop on the dow will be 18,000
Then we go to Dow 16,000
Then perhaps we hit a Dow 0f 13,000
What if the stock doubles in the next year and you sold it did you lose anything?
What if you hold the stock for 10 years and the price goes up and down constantly. Did you make or lose money?
NO! Only if you sell!
If you are the panicking type you should not have money in the stock market.
I am well funded, but you wouldn't know that by coming in, I sell the crap as fast I get it, if a customer is not walking out the door with the bullion, its on the way to the refinery twice a week if necessary, you ask why, well take a look at this week. If I would have bought a bunch of gold on Monday, I would be at a 150 oz loss as today, No thanks.
Ill stay profitable!
I sure am glad I got out of the stock market in 1996! (especialy after reading this back and forth) I put that money into my coin collection and coin business! I would wager if I hadn't done that my net worth would be 10% of what it is now!
Whatever. Do you know that your local plumber cannot get latex gloves now? Would YOU like to work on YOUR sewer system without latex gloves? Some things are more important than coins. Time to appreciate the little guy. The men who can't afford the luxury but still keep things in order and keep on working to feed their family Think about it.......you might want to pay those guys a little something extra. Or at least give them the respect they deserve. Just a thought.
That is my basic point.
I got wiped out day trading stocks in the internet boom/bust.
I have not bought stocks since then except for my wife's 401K which I day traded last Thursday and Friday.
Market conditions uncontrolled by me wiped out my photo business.
The coin business has been very good to me.
Stocks will be a very good buy at 50% off the top.
How much did you have to pay in taxes to be totally cash. For some the tax hit would be greater than the losses of the market.
I can see EOC is quite the optimist.
Well, The big boom for me was I was collecting World Coins when no one wanted them! That was huge! I also funded my inventory...which was kindda a steady tic toc...not getting rich but eventually went full time in 2000(I call it being semi-retired!)
No tax, 401K money.
In what world do you not have to pay taxes on your 401(k). If you are not 59 1/2 there’s also a 10% penalty to the government. A 401(k) is called a tax deferred annuity meaning you don’t pay the taxes until you receive the money.
Never mind you must not of cashed out just moving it within the fund.
I did not take cash out. I moved the funds from an age based stock index fund to a market stable Captial preservation fund that actually pays 2% with no downside all within the 401K.
I made this move 1 1/2 years ago at DOW 26,000 as I foresaw the POTUS Bubble
Bull Markets do not last 11 years!
Another real world example is when applying for a mortgage. During the process you will be asked to show all your assets. When they get to your stock portfolio or 401K they don’t look at what you paid for your stocks or what they were worth 3 years ago or 3 years from now. It’s what they are worth that day. That is your net worth in stocks.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Are we talking about net worth or whether or not you make or lose money without selling? Two completely different topics!
If you are going to have money in the market you had better be willing to see the amount go up and down.
Real world examples I have seen is people panicking and selling when things drop. Only to cry later and say if I would have just held on my money would have tripled.
I have no idea what you are taking about. I was talking about how people view “their wealth” at any given point in time. I pray they don’t look at it on the if come.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You were agreeing with Mfeld that you can have a loss or a gain without selling. I agree with Dimeman that you don’t have a loss or gain until you sell.
I am an advocate for holding on and not and panicking. This has been a good strategy for many that I know and have known. Not so much for the people who did not.
In my mind the odds are with the people who hang on. That all might change time will tell.
Wow this thread sure got off track.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
To the point of the original post, it looks to me that the market is holding in pretty well under the circumstance. Just looking at auction results over the past few days and you are seeing Vf-Ef Morgans maintaining a significant premium over melt. In fact, the premium spread seems a little higher on Eagles given the price decline in metals.
The bullion and metal content purchases are going to command a premium over spot. Who believes the Fed can unleash $1 Trillion in a buying program and not eventually impact gold/silver. Type coins are a different story I'm afraid.
I might have gotten a little sidetracked.
As you have explained, this is exactly why he is not selling as > @topstuf said:
This is exactly what I heard the dealer tell a customer. He cannot replace what he sells. When He buys, most is sold off immediately to lock in the profit.
I can't explain how bizarre I find the notion that unrealized gains/losses have nothing to do with gains/losses.
Maybe another Gov. bailout will be forthcoming to prevent/halt that decline?
Always was curious what the definition of the word "wealth" constituted. Gates/Buffet type of $ or the person with $100,00.00 in the bank from working 9-5 all their life. These stock brokers on TV who advertise they will assist you in wealth mgt. never cite what that wealth number is.
Many years ago I was gifted 25 shares of GE stock. Sold it @ $20 per. $500.00 gross. If I sold it today @ $7.50, gross $187.50. Since the stock was a gift did I gain $500 when I sold it back then, or if I held till now and sold it would I gain $187.50 or lose with the difference being $500 minus $187.50 for a loss of$312.50.
The point I am trying to make is what you do with the unrealized gains or losses. From the gist of this thread it felt like people were panicking and advocating to sell it all before it is too late. In my opinion that is not the prudent thing to do. If I am wrong on the general feeling then I probably sound like a babbling (***).
I’m not going to go back through this thread, but I think I saw perhaps only one or two such posts.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I smell blood in the streets.
HE>I
Lower net assets will cause the conservative to hunker down, and the risk takers to have less to borrow against.
Loss of jobs/income will cause many to be forced to focus on only day to day expenses.
Things will come back eventually, but the income/earnings that the business world is losing due to the virus, will last longer. You have real economic and psycological factors taking place.
My prediction is discretionary spending goes way down. Coins will move at the $400 and up range, but will be sold at what would have been considered low ball pricing a few months ago.
The well prepared will buy, but on their terms.
Just got a small amount of debt to finish paying off and working on a one year emergency fund.
Debt freedom is like a drug to me... makes life so uncomplicated.
Turn off the TV, log off social media, consciously avoid crowds.
I am focusing on grading and selling off a few things to fund the grading.
Enough to keep me busy and get me thru the summer.
Got some good coin books to read.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Forced to sell? Take what you can get right now.
Can wait for your price and enjoy the coins' appearance in the meantime? Wait it out.
Just like always, only more 😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Folks, I do not see the markets coming back (might even fall some more) for most companies until this is over or close to being on the down hill side. All the sporting events, trade shows, other events that are cancelled , travel dollars, entertainment dollars all coming to a standstill. Folks having to find somewhere to house the kids out of school , lack of work in what will be a major part of the economy. Lot of companies only keeping essential personnel for at least several weeks, etc
We just came back from eating out a the steak house, which is normally crowded, never seen the parking lot so empty, Friday at a different restaurant across town similar. They are taking precautions and doing things that require extra time and with less number of patrons, this has got to affect the bottom line.
In the words of the great Mike Ditka "This too shall pass!"
That is speculation. What falls doesn't always come back up. Many U.S. stocks were already over priced and due for an adjustment. SARS-CoV-2 isn't helping matters any.
Like gas.
It’s also likely gas
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I hate to be the macabre one of the group, but the spike in mortality rate for SARS-CoV-2 starts progressing upward around age forty and spikes for the 60+ crowd. This seems like a large fraction of U.S. coin collectors. I think the answer to your question depends in part on the ultimate lethality rate once the dust settles for the geriatric crowd.*
*Generally in the medical community, the age for geriatric medicine is defined to start around 60 or 65 IIRC. Hence my use of the term here.
Stay safe everyone! I don't want to lose any forum members.
In the words of Monty Python (and the Holy Grail): "None shall pass!" So stay home.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]