I can't decide if this is the ugliest MS67 or just one that's different.

keets

I saw this while looking at some Walkers on eBay and my initial thought was ugh-leeeeeeeeeee, but after I stared at it for a moment it looked a little nicer. Still not something I would want or consider buying and maybe not even a coin I could see as an MS67, but I don't think it is as ugly as my first impression.

What do you think of the coin and the grade.

Al H.

dimebag

they should grade it U67 the U meaning UGLY !!!!!

291fifth

Eye-appeal that negative should disqualify a coin from a grade of 67 and probably lower grades as well.

TurtleCat

I bet in hand it’s excellent. The TrueViews tend to offer very flat and low contrast lighting that are intended to highlight color over luster. The luster on this is probably awesome and the color likely looks great in person.

Smudge

I am in the ugly camp, reverse is better.

Insider2

@keets asked: "What do you think of the coin and the grade."

Eye appeal is a rather personal thing. Nevertheless, it seems to change now and then for a large for the majority of folks. I liken it to fashion. Men's ties change in width and female hemlines go up and down. It seems it cannot be stopped. Try to buy a narrow tie today. We are forced into certain patterns of fashion - like it or not. I'm going to keep my comments about hemlines to myself for obvious reasons. So, as long as the color of a coin can affect its value more than its actual and true condition of preservation....

Now here's what I think of this coin: I think it best that when pulling images off the Net to show something, it would be best to CROP THEM in a way that they cannot be easily identified.

BillJones

In my opinion, it’s more like environmental damage. The toning process has gone too far on the obverse.

MFeld

I’d prefer a more even toning pattern on the obverse, but I don’t consider the coin to be unattractive. My guess is that it looks prettier/more appealing in hand, but even if not, it bespeaks originality.

Oldhoopster

Unless it looks significantly better in hand, I would have absolutely no interest in purchasing this coin. Based on the picture, the obverse toning reminds me of rust on some seldom used tools in my garage.

Just my opinion

Insider2

@BillJones said:
In my opinion, it’s more like environmental damage. The toning process has gone too far on the obverse.

Thank You for pointing out just one more variable that Commercial grading introduced into the grading equation along with the value, strike, and all the others! Maybe someone can let us know when haze, becomes toning. Or when toning becomes just tarnish or corrosion.

Oldhoopster

@Insider2 said:

@BillJones said:
In my opinion, it’s more like environmental damage. The toning process has gone too far on the obverse.

Thank You for pointing out just one more variable that Commercial grading introduced into the grading equation along with the value, strike, and all the others! Maybe someone can let us know when haze, becomes toning. Or when toning becomes just tarnish or corrosion.

The Market will tell us as soon as it finishes working on next year's tie width and hemline lengths

MFeld

@BillJones said:
In my opinion, it’s more like environmental damage. The toning process has gone too far on the obverse.

Based on what I see in the images, in my opinion, the toning is uneven and mottled, but nowhere close to environmental damage. I’ve seen similar toning on quite a few other Walking Liberty halves and Mercury dimes. Often, it looks quite attractive, in-hand.

bolivarshagnasty

If attractive toning adds a point, they should have taken one away for this coin.

scubafuel

I'd bet the luster shines through wonderfully on this coin. The image is very flat. If the toning became thick enough to impact the luster, it would not qualify for an MS67 grade.

DIMEMAN

Very nice coin. Toning should not affect technical grade at all. The surfaces look very clean and mark free. It would be a WOW coin if the obverse matched the reverse toning wise. As is I would not call it ugly and it is deserving of the grade.JMHO.

CoinJunkie

I think the reverse is beautiful. Without seeing it in hand I can't opine on whether the obverse disqualifies it from a 67 grade. That said, it would disqualify me as a potential buyer of the coin.

Catbert

@MFeld said:
...but even if not, it bespeaks originality.

Thou hath bespoken truth, verily I say!

Interesting coin, but that obverse makes me runneth away, as Mark might say. 😉

fivecents

If it was a MS 64 grade level yes it is attractive and I would buy it quick.

At the MS67 grade level no it's unattractive. Too much deep toning to enjoy it as an MS67.

fiftysevener

@Insider2 said:
@keets asked: "What do you think of the coin and the grade."

Eye appeal is a rather personal thing. Nevertheless, it seems to change now and then for a large for the majority of folks. I liken it to fashion. Men's ties change in width and female hemlines go up and down. It seems it cannot be stopped. Try to buy a narrow tie today. We are forced into certain patterns of fashion - like it or not. I'm going to keep my comments about hemlines to myself for obvious reasons. So, as long as the color of a coin can affect its value more than its actual and true condition of preservation....

Now here's what I think of this coin: I think it best that when pulling images off the Net to show something, it would be best to CROP THEM in a way that they cannot be easily identified.

Please elaborate as to why these PCGS (or NGC) cert. numbers should be cropped out of images.

bolivarshagnasty

I’ve noticed a push for the last several years to make these kind of toned coins desirable. When a collector is considering a crusty brown widget and posts a picture here on the forum, there
is always a group extolling it’s beauty and luster. I suspect there is a large number of these in need of a new home, hence the hype. Selling a beautiful coin is easy. The ugly ones involve some salesmanship.

fiftysevener

Don't forget that PCGS cannot possibly peel back that oxidation to give that coin a technical grade and I understand that their assessment is just an appraisal at most.

topstuf

spfffgh

mustangmanbob

@Insider2 said:
female hemlines go up and down. It

Or they can be both at the same time.

Cougar1978

Not for me will leave to toning hobbyist

fivecents

@fiftysevener said:
Don't forget that PCGS cannot possibly peel back that oxidation to give that coin a technical grade and I understand that their assessment is just an appraisal at most.

Toning that deep can hide imperfections. Remove the toning and those imperfections can become obvious.

davewesen

The reverse is one of the best I have seen. The obverse my look exceptional in hand, it is hard to capture luster in pics.

metalmeister

That reverse is stunning!

divecchia

I'm in the ugly camp, but then I don't like tarnish.

Donato

CCGGG

That's what we called a double bagger in my younger days.

skier07

It’s not my cup of tea. If we all liked the same coins this hobby would be pretty boring and the doctors would have a field day ruining everything.

thisistheshow

I go with different.

The obverse toning, the way it leaves her face and upper body exposed, is interestingly balanced. And the reverse, imo, is very nice.

If it was to be my only example, I would pass. But as part of a set, it is.....different.

SilverProofQuarter1883

Quite the monster toner

TomB

I actually quite like it...

coinbuf

I do not like that crunchy tone to the obv, ruins the coin for me and I wouldn't want it for my collection at any price above melt.

ironmanl63

From a photo alone you are guessing. Ever purchase a coin you have not seen in hand and it looks totally different when you receive it? I have and it goes both ways. The same goes for guess the grades. Some of my GTG have seen a majority of the guesses either 2 points high or 2 points low. I would not be tempted to purchase this coin from the photo but in hand it might be a stunner.

Insider2

@fiftysevener said:

@Insider2 said:
@keets asked: "What do you think of the coin and the grade."

Eye appeal is a rather personal thing. Nevertheless, it seems to change now and then for a large for the majority of folks. I liken it to fashion. Men's ties change in width and female hemlines go up and down. It seems it cannot be stopped. Try to buy a narrow tie today. We are forced into certain patterns of fashion - like it or not. I'm going to keep my comments about hemlines to myself for obvious reasons. So, as long as the color of a coin can affect its value more than its actual and true condition of preservation....

Now here's what I think of this coin: I think it best that when pulling images off the Net to show something, it would be best to CROP THEM in a way that they cannot be easily identified.

Please elaborate as to why these PCGS (or NGC) cert. numbers should be cropped out of images.

Easy if you think about it. We can find examples of over graded, under graded, and correctly graded coins all over the place including in TPGS holders. Grading HAS BECOME even more subjective than it was at one time at authentication services. There will always be disagreement as to taste and eye appeal. Even here on CU some folks post obviously damaged coins (remember the SL50c with the large scratch in the obverse field?) that are straight graded and for what reason? To point out how smart they are? A top TPGS has evaluated the coin. If you don't like the grade fine; but IMO all identifying info should be removed. The coin can be discussed w/o knowing who assigned the grade.

Fact: Part of the obverse rim of the coin we are discussing has a corroded edge that can NEVER be fixed enough to fool the guys who work on these. However, it can be restored enough to fool the rest of you BUT w ho would be dumb enough to ruin such a desirable coin to many knowledgeable dealers/collectors.

Insider2

@mustangmanbob said:

@Insider2 said:
female hemlines go up and down. It

Or they can be both at the same time.

I'm having a hard tip figuring this out. Perhaps a few moer images (high & low) would be helpful.

Jimnight

Not bad ... l sorta like it.

Walkerfan

Not sure what is hiding under all that crust?

If it were dipped would it still be a technical 67?

I don't like it....All I see is a lot of deep russet toning from improper storage. My 2 cents....

ms70

I'm thinking it must have great luster in hand.

BryceM

I imagine it's probably graded correctly and it's probably one of those coins that is stunning in-hand, but ugly in photos. I saw a 20c piece just like that at the Long Beach show. In any case, It would be a much easier coin to buy than to sell. I'd never want to own it.

RockyMtnProspector

I kinda like it, but would have to see it in hand before I played or passed. As others have said, could be one of those that is amazing in person but doesn't face up well in 2D.

Texast

I would have to see it in hand, if it's like the picture it's a pass for me.

Catbert

@Justacommeman what say you?

privatecoin

I like it. Call me the oddball.

Outhaul

Uglier than a pan of fried a-holes.

asheland

I like the reverse.

golden

Ugly!

silverpop

that type of toning isn't my cup of tea so to say

Zoins

It seems like it's not loved enough to be showcased in a registry set right now

https://www.pcgs.com/cert/38493644

ironmanl63

Its not in the CAC database either. LOL.