Please help me understand the “toning” premium

guinessmstr45

Folks - I’m a bit new here, and trying to wrap my head around the premium I’m seeing out there for these toned/rainbow/etc coins. I get they’re beautiful. I understand it’s a great story re the aging process - but asking 5 grand for a coin that has a BV of $130 seems nuts to me. Is there any rationale to what sort of % uplift on book value toning can command - or is it really just random?

An example - https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273845893043

• and that seller seems to have plenty of toned Morgan’s

And based on what PCGS has for that coin -
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/82271752

Any help greatly appreciated!!!

Bigbuck1975

Juiced photos and I bet the coin looks nothing like that in hand. No way that coin is worth even 1/10 of that ask IMO.

airplanenut

That photo is juiced, guaranteed I’ve seen many much nicer coins, and the premium being asked is absolutely nuts. For that coin to be $5k, it would have to be incredible and possibly a higher grade. Don’t use that as an example of a toning premiums. Anyone can ask anything they want. What they get is another story. That coin will never sell for $5k.

CoinJunkie

You ask a general question about why toning premiums can be so high, and then cite a listing where the seller is asking an absurd amount that he'll never get. The "Best Offer" is a sure sign he knows this and is fishing. You're probably better off looking at realized, rather than asking, prices to get a feel for actual toning premiums. Even then, it's very situational and somewhat random given the uniqueness of each coin.

bolivarshagnasty

Back to the basic supply vs demand equation. The truly beautiful naturally toned coins are scarce and demand is high when they come to market. Not much demand for ugly or artificially toned coins. Ebay is full of them. No demand. Simple as that.

BryceM

It’s arguably nuts to spend more than a dollar for a dollar to start with. Since we’re starting from crazy, paying even more something pretty is only a little “extra” crazy.

After that, it’s just simple supply & demand. Right now pretty toners and coins that look original (whatever that means) are selling for a premium. Pretty toning is common on some coins (Morgans, Texas Commems) and not so common on others (Peace dollars, Standing Lib Quarters, Sesqui Commems).

Eagleguy

A coin, or any other collectible, is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it.

davewesen

If you want to look at toning premiums, you need to look at completed auction sales.

Hydrant

The best advise......get RICKO'S opinion. He's the resident expert..😇

AUandAG

Here is when it sold at Heritage.....I think this pic is more accurate. Looking for a sucker.

emeraldATV

I can't say the above appeals to me.
Simple as that I think.

3stars

I never understood toning either. Tarnished coins means they weren’t properly stored or cared for in my opinion. No one pays a premium for “toned” antique sterling silver items like teapots or spoons.

Kkathyl

Premiums do come into to play on coins that show clear natural toning and are graded as such. Morgan’s and Copper cents are two particular coins with a lot of action. Here are some example of plus coins acquired. With the right type of toning I look for.

These Morgan’s show nice rainbow toning but not too much nor any signs of AT

Kkathyl

Premiums out of my reach

AUandAG

I found this one in a Prestige set some 7 years ago. Sold to a fellow forum member for a very reasonable price (under $300). They are out there and some are very spectacular.
bob

291fifth

The best approach for the "toning premium" for new collectors is simple ... just say NO.

ricko

@guinessmstr45....Welcome aboard... Your question is valid. Tarnish, colorful tarnish, on coins, does command a premium from many collectors. Yes, tarnish is environmental damage that results in the degradation of the coins surface. That being said, many people find the colors far more attractive than a blast white, mint issued surface...So, much like art, the value is determined by the market. Personally, I prefer my coins without tarnish...Now, wear and discoloration from commerce on old coins is acceptable for my collection... I just do not seek out the tarnished coins. Also, there is the artificial tarnish issue that is flooding the market. Just another pitfall in the world of coin collecting. Cheers, RickO

Sonorandesertrat

@291fifth said:
The best approach for the "toning premium" for new collectors is simple ... just say NO.

Regarding new collectors, I agree. I have some toned coins that I paid a large premium over what they would bring if white, but I would not pay one extra dime for modestly toned coins. Anyone thinking about buying a wildly toned coin for a stiff price needs to spend time studying the market. As usual, caveat emptor. Wildly toned coins make most grades almost irrelevant---the bulk of the value is in the colors. Obverse color counts far more than reverse color. Another thing to note is that the major TPGs will consider toning as a major factor in eye appeal, and the toning can positively or negatively impact a grade.

Another problem is artificial toning. This is quite serious IMO. If I cannot rationalize how a coin acquired its toning (pattern of toning, color(s), etc...), I refuse to consider it for purchase even if it sits in a slab.

crazyhounddog

Take a look at auction results for premium toned coins. That’s about as real as it gets. Like others have said the example you’re showing is of a juiced to the max Morgan dollar that the seller is looking for a fool and his money. In my book that coin is uglier than my mother in law. Take a good look at some auction results to form your opinion.
Toning on some coins are outrageously beautiful and will bring a premium.
Happy hunting, Joe

Downtown1974

I used to feel the same way. Didn’t really understand the premiums on toned coins. My opinion changed drastically once I saw some of Crazyhounddogs toned buffs. They really are beautiful coins, almost like little pieces of artwork. Now I have an appreciation for toned coins. I should also add, before I really got into coins - I liked accumulating silver bullion. So my eye was trained to view coinage or rounds as bright and shiny.

HJP

The premium for real, naturally toned coins can be steep. Perhaps a bit unwarranted as once a 90% Ag coin begins to oxidize, it will continue to oxidize until the color is very dark (i.e. black). Watch out in another 20 - 30 years what happens to rainbow toned Morgans,...etc.

The proliferation of artificially toned coins on the market is very unfortunate. You have big time ebay sellers (like Cent....) who put coins in a vacuum chamber and evaporates TiO2 or SiO2 (or other oxides with nice spectral reflectance in the visible wavelength) and sell them as "toned". Yea, they are toned alright - and very ugly to a discerning numismatist.

There are ways to tell if a coins toning is natural - if your willing to pay a premium for toning you beter learn how to tell the difference and then think about wht this coin may look like in 20 years (if you choose to own the coin that long…)
HJP

joeykoins

@3stars said:

No one pays a premium for “toned” antique sterling silver items like teapots or spoons.
Beautifully
Toned coins compared to "teapots and spoons", would be like comparing "apples to oranges". I for one LOVE toned coins. As a matter of fact, I just bought some today.❤

Jimnight

Toning can mean beautiful colors ... people can be attracted by these toning colors.

joeykoins

@Jimnight said:
Toning can mean beautiful colors ... people can be attracted by these toning colors.

Exactly. Can one imagine a rainbow missing it's colors? 😫

Kkathyl

I have some original toners like that. Some are expected like Sterling pieces and some sat nicely away without any other coins touching. Great piece. Here are some
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xpec

ironmanl63

When I see a coin that looks like this the guide is pretty much irrelevant.