Ungraded 53 Mantle

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 11:23AM

At a local auction....I have my eye on an ungraded 53 Topps mantle. Card looks nice but ungraded always has me worried. It is in the old school screw down holder.....
at what price would you take a chance?
anything i should be looking out for that would make me pass?

Thanks!

LarkinCollector · February 25, 2020 11:31AM

See if the screwdown is beveled for the card to rest in or if both sides are flat on the inside. If the latter, I wouldn't bid more than the cost of an Auth minus grading fees. Altered Stock designation is always a concern with overly tightened screwdowns. This is all assuming you are comfortable verifying authenticity.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 11:33AM

thanks...great tip!

JoeBanzai · February 25, 2020 11:34AM

You haven't really given much information to go on.

Can you return it if it ends up being a fake?

Unless you have the money to throw away, or you can get it ridiculously cheap, I would pass.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 11:36AM

it is an auction, and can not be returned. I do not have a good picture but hope to post one later this afternoon. as far as ridiculously cheap.....what are you thinking?

JoeBanzai · February 25, 2020 11:44AM

Good comment from Larkincollector!

Depends on the condition. $500.00?

Personally, I don't have the funds to gamble on a card that could have zero value to thousands of dollars.

The picture might help.

remedylane · February 25, 2020 11:46AM

Being authentic is the key. I'm not a baseball guy, so I'm not sure if that one is commonly counterfitted. If its a fake and you bid hundreds or thousands of dollars then that would suck. What type of Auction is It? Any back story on the card? Are there other cards being auctioned?

JBrules · February 25, 2020 12:55PM

What auction house?

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 12:57PM

Here are the pics. Screws are not all the way down. ![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/5n/v82qatm6xyg2.jpeg
I welcome your thoughts.

LarkinCollector · February 25, 2020 1:19PM

It's not a set or card I'm an expert on, but nothing screams out 'Fake!'. Aging looks correct w/the discoloration, the tilt and T/B OC lend credence to it being authentic IMHO. Check for any surface wrinkles or creases if you can. Nice looking card!

remedylane · February 25, 2020 1:45PM

I agree with Larkin. The only thing that looks amiss to me is the bottom looks short. Could be a miscut, could be trimmed or could just be Off center T/B like Larkin said . But I'm not an expert on that set. Just pointing out what my eyes see. Could be totally normal. Maybe look at pics of other mickeys to see.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 1:46PM

pictures from the set match. Don’t think it was trimmed but not an expert either

remedylane · February 25, 2020 1:51PM

It's probably fine. Card is worth 4 figures. Id do my due diligence. Im sure bids will get up there

orioles93 · February 25, 2020 2:05PM

Card looks ok to me, as far as being authentic. It's close to being miscut though. That plus being in a screwdown (even with it not being tight now, it could have been at any time in the past), I wouldn't invest to much into it. Maybe bid somewhere between the value of a PSA 1 and 3 and if you win you should be fine.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 2:09PM

I don’t think it would have made sense for someone to cut it like that and make it so off center. The #1 thing vintage collectors are looking for is centering so i doubt someone would cut it to make it 80/20. They would have been better off with a couple rounded corners.

LarkinCollector · February 25, 2020 2:15PM

@momo1234 said:
I don’t think it would have made sense for someone to cut it like that and make it so off center. The #1 thing vintage collectors are looking for is centering so i doubt someone would cut it to make it 80/20. They would have been better off with a couple rounded corners.

Don't forget, people have been altering cards as long as there's been a buck to make. Centering is king now, but sharp corners were all the rage for decades.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 2:52PM

Well it sold for $1100. I did not buy it. Add in the buyers premium that’s almost $1300. That’s too much to risk on this for me.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 3:11PM

Hope I made the right decision

LarkinCollector · February 25, 2020 3:12PM

@momo1234 said:
Well it sold for $1100. I did not buy it. Add in the buyers premium that’s almost $1300. That’s too much to risk on this for me.

Yeah, you'd have to get at least a 4 to make it worthwhile. Too many unknowns to take that kind of risk as my initial though was 6(OC) would be about the best hope for it.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 3:16PM

Yea agreed and an OC would not be a grade worth getting

Piggs · February 25, 2020 8:15PM

Good pass on your part.

momo1234 · February 25, 2020 9:03PM

Thanks for the re assurances

1951WheatiesPremium · February 28, 2020 3:18AM

My two cents...I am pretty certain that card is a counterfeit so be extra glad you passed on it.

Can’t be certain without it in hand but the brightness of the blue hat concerns me. The ‘dotting’ on the cardboard back means it was probably paper that was printed to be that color rather than just the natural color of the cardboard. Also, the colors on the back are not as deep as they should be and some of the text is not as crisp and clear as a card in that shape should be.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 28, 2020 3:26AM

While mine doesn’t have the corners of the one you presented, it’s otherwise a decent match for centering so check out these front and back scans:

momo1234 · February 28, 2020 8:28AM

I am not sure I am following your logic @1951WheatiesPremium The color is too bright on the one i bid on? I am not sure what dotting you see on the back but if you can point it out that would be a great help.
Unfortunately, I will never know if it is fake or real....unless it happens upon eBay at some point...the one thing i will do next time, is measure it. I should have done that to at least see if there was any trimming done.

I appreciate all the help, the more education, the better we get at it.

momo1234 · February 28, 2020 8:29AM

i will say...that on close inspection the bottom PTD IN USA does look sharper in the real card then in the one I saw...but I dismissed it at first.

1951WheatiesPremium · February 28, 2020 8:45AM

@momo1234 said:
I am not sure I am following your logic @1951WheatiesPremium The color is too bright on the one i bid on? I am not sure what dotting you see on the back but if you can point it out that would be a great help.
Unfortunately, I will never know if it is fake or real....unless it happens upon eBay at some point...the one thing i will do next time, is measure it. I should have done that to at least see if there was any trimming done.

I appreciate all the help, the more education, the better we get at it.

The color of the cardboard should be natural. On a typical period Topps card, you have shiny side (front) and unfinished side (back). The colors were printed onto both sides. In the case of the back on this particular 1953, the red, black and pink are printed onto the brown card board. The ‘brown’ cardboard areas have not been colored brown, it’s their natural ‘cardboard brown’ color. Your ‘brown’ is a printed color, I think. Easier to tell in hand but I’m pretty certain.

Zoomed in on the back of the one you bid on:

Zoomed in on the legitimate one:

momo1234 · February 28, 2020 8:52AM

DAMN YOU'RE GOOD!
Thats incredible.

daltex · February 28, 2020 8:59AM

@momo1234 said:
Unfortunately, I will never know if it is fake or real....unless it happens upon eBay at some point...the one thing i will do next time, is measure it. I should have done that to at least see if there was any trimming done.

Please keep in mind that PSA has two different designations, Minsize and EOT. It is entirely possible for a card, especially from 1953, to come slightly oversized then trimmed back to "standard".

momo1234 · February 28, 2020 9:01AM

my point here was to see if it was short then the regular size..but i did not know about the different size designations. interesting.

momo1234 · February 28, 2020 9:16AM

@1951WheatiesPremium upon your zooming comparison, your card does show much sharper letters...looks like i made a good move not buying it. i just dont understand why someone would spend all the effort...

Mickey71 · February 28, 2020 9:20AM

Good pass on that item. Looks Mis-cut at best

momo1234 · February 28, 2020 10:03AM

@1951WheatiesPremium the colors on this one look similar to the one i showed...i agree the printing on the back is different and sharper on the one we know is legit..but still not sure the color would be enough of a flag for me...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Topps-82-Mickey-Mantle-Yankees-PSA-4-VG-EX/293456286929?hash=item44535b94d1:m:m6X2FbadjMhBsKCMYDV071A

1951WheatiesPremium · March 1, 2020 7:23AM

@momo1234

Just offering input. Everyone’s entitled to their own methods.

It’s a multi factor thing for me:

1) There were no card savers or top loaders in 1953 and no one was ‘investing’ in a 2 year old company’s bubble gum cards. Corners like that, to me, are a HUGE red flag.

2) Perhaps ‘color brightness’ isn’t correct but the shade of blue is different as are the rest of the colors of the hat, especially:

3) Always check the back - it’s a great reveal on old cardboard, especially. If you’ve followed some of the Card Alterer reveal threads on other baseball card websites, a lot of what is used to identify cards is fibers on the back and the general look of the unfinished side. Unscrupulous sellers often do not provide card backs - with good reason.

Again, I’m just a collector; I don’t grade cards or authenticate them for a living. Just my two cents and probably not even worth that.

remedylane · March 1, 2020 7:51AM

For sure we're all entitled to our own opinions. But if wheatiespremium said he felt a 50s era card may be fake, I'm likely gonna go with that. After seeing the back scans up close it would be enough for me to agree. Especially if I couldn't see and handle the card up close.

1951WheatiesPremium · March 1, 2020 8:31AM

@remedylane

That’s very kind of you to say.

Thank you.

momo1234 · March 2, 2020 8:17AM

@1951WheatiesPremium agreed. your points are well taken and I appreciate it. Wish there was a cheat sheet when people go and buy vintage....maybe we can start one

1951WheatiesPremium · March 2, 2020 8:56AM

@momo1234 said:
@1951WheatiesPremium agreed. your points are well taken and I appreciate it. Wish there was a cheat sheet when people go and buy vintage....maybe we can start one

One of THE best things collectors can and should do is buy a few raw commons from the set in which they are looking to purchase a ‘big card’, so to speak.

If I was going to buy, say, a nice example of one of the four 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth baseball cards, I wouldn’t start by looking at Ruth’s. I’d grab* a few cheaper raw (and graded, I suppose, if the budget allows) commons from the set of varying quality to get an idea of the look and feel of authentic cards from the set. Border size, color, issue size, actual feel and smell of cardboard from the period. After achieving some level of comfort, I’d examine prices on ALL available data sources and proceed with patience looking for the right deal on the right card from the right seller. Eye appeal balanced against grade and cost. Cash is king so ask questions until you are comfortable and walk away when you are not.

Good luck in the hunt...

*Remember, you can and should always put them back in the market when you’re done with them, if you don’t want them. Around what you paid, maybe a little less and consider it the cost of education; much cheaper than Harvard

LarkinCollector · March 2, 2020 8:57AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@momo1234 said:
I am not sure I am following your logic @1951WheatiesPremium The color is too bright on the one i bid on? I am not sure what dotting you see on the back but if you can point it out that would be a great help.
Unfortunately, I will never know if it is fake or real....unless it happens upon eBay at some point...the one thing i will do next time, is measure it. I should have done that to at least see if there was any trimming done.

I appreciate all the help, the more education, the better we get at it.

The color of the cardboard should be natural. On a typical period Topps card, you have shiny side (front) and unfinished side (back). The colors were printed onto both sides. In the case of the back on this particular 1953, the red, black and pink are printed onto the brown card board. The ‘brown’ cardboard areas have not been colored brown, it’s their natural ‘cardboard brown’ color. Your ‘brown’ is a printed color, I think. Easier to tell in hand but I’m pretty certain.

Good catch. Is it possible that's a distortion from the screw down? I haven't really paid attention to how they look in there as I usually just remove the card and discard the screw down whenever one makes it's way to me. I've definitely never had one of that style.

momo1234 · March 2, 2020 9:10AM

i also noticed in the zoom, that in my card (darker blue) there is a blue spot in the Y on Mantle's cap...this blue printing spot does not appear on the real card...
anyone catch that or am i just losing it?

remedylane · March 2, 2020 9:36AM

@1951WheatiesPremium said:

@momo1234 said:
@1951WheatiesPremium agreed. your points are well taken and I appreciate it. Wish there was a cheat sheet when people go and buy vintage....maybe we can start one

One of THE best things collectors can and should do is buy a few raw commons from the set in which they are looking to purchase a ‘big card’, so to speak.

If I was going to buy, say, a nice example of one of the four 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth baseball cards, I wouldn’t start by looking at Ruth’s. I’d grab* a few cheaper raw (and graded, I suppose, if the budget allows) commons from the set of varying quality to get an idea of the look and feel of authentic cards from the set. Border size, color, issue size, actual feel and smell of cardboard from the period. After achieving some level of comfort, I’d examine prices on ALL available data sources and proceed with patience looking for the right deal on the right card from the right seller. Eye appeal balanced against grade and cost. Cash is king so ask questions until you are comfortable and walk away when you are not.

Good luck in the hunt...

*Remember, you can and should always put them back in the market when you’re done with them, if you don’t want them. Around what you paid, maybe a little less and consider it the cost of education; much cheaper than Harvard

Again great advice. Im Not kissing butt lol. When i started on the 48 leaf boxing set I didn't have any experience with that set or cards from the 1940s. Early on I got burned on a few cards. Thankfully none of the expensive ones. A couple I got had been trimmed. I think we have to keep in mind that we have no idea what a kid or even adult may have done to a card of that age over the years. It's not always just to try and make the card look better.

I've also bought cards that were photographed in a way to hide major flaws. 5 years in I consider myself close to an expert on the set. I've learned tons here and I feel the guys on here are a great resource on just about anything. There is someone for just about any era or set you can imagine. I'll be the 48 leaf boxing guy lol.

Ungraded 53 Mantle

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