Your choice - how about 50% or more? If not that, 100% or more?
I stopped at Office Depot to buy envelopes yesterday. A box of 500 was $44.95, which seemed a little high as I thought I paid less at Staples last time. So I went to Staples, where they had comparable envelopes priced at $19.95 for 500.
Is Office Depot acting unethically?
edited to add...
@MFeld said:
how much responsibility do you wish to place on him to really know what he’s buying, so as not to pay way too much?
To be clear, my position is that buyers are responsible for knowing what they're buying and whether they're paying too much (or not) and sellers are responsible for not misrepresenting what they're selling, regardless of how they choose to price it.
While your envelopes-scenario was apples to oranges, based on your position at the bottom of your post, it appears that we’re in agreement, after all.👍
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But lack of ethics and lying on the part of a seller often lead to a buyer paying too much - they’re closely related issues. When a buyer’s unknowingly dealing with such a seller, how much responsibility do you wish to place on him to really know what he’s buying, so as not to pay way too much?
Well, Mr. Feld, without entering into a discussion of 'are your ethics the same as mine'
The job of a seller is to get as much as he can for what he is selling.
The job of a buyer is to pay as little as possible for what he is buying.
So is it unethical for, say, Ford to sell a truck for $50,000 when it costs them $8,000 for the pieces to build it?
Is it unethical for a mortgage company to charge compound interest so that you borrow $100,000 for thirty years and pay them a total $280,000?
Arguing the ethics of selling, buying, advertising, and interest is a losing cause no matter which side you are on.
If a seller lists a coin with superlatives like "GEMMY " or Super Slider"or 6 plus signs then all I can say is "Son, you're on your own"
When a buyer is shopping for raw coins on line he is swimming with sharks, if he does not know that before he starts he will know it when he dives in. He chose to be there, he agreed to the price paid, and he likely thinks he knows what he is doing. If he does, good for him, if he does not I have no empathy.
Everyone here at one time or another has been, fooled or paid too much. Many have made money on both ends of this spectrum.
So how much responsibility do I place on the buyer?
He agreed to the terms, if he buys his coin and does not like it and there are returns allowed then he returns it and gets a cheap lesson. If he cannot return it than the lesson costs him more.
You pay your money and take your chances.
I live in a no whining zone.
Sorry, but I don’t even necessarily agree with the first part of your post regarding the “job ” of a buyer and a seller. And the same goes for most of the rest of it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sorry, but I don’t even necessarily agree with the first part of your post regarding the “job ” of a buyer and a seller. And the same goes for most of the rest of it.
Okay. No problem. Not the first time and won't be the last time I thought differently than the majority.
There is a difference in selling a coin for too much money without misrepresenting it, and selling it for too much money by flat out lying about the coin. **To not admit that or understand that says all I need to know about you.
**
Does it?
Tell me Did the seller say the coin was any particular grade number?
Was it PCGS MS 65?
Bet it wasn't.
By some of the standards stated here every car dealer in the nation should be in jail.
He actually very often lists coins as UNCIRCULATED, BU, MS, etc. And if he bought them already slabbed/graded as anything BUT those, then cracked them out and listed as such, then it is deceitful, nothing less.
Sorry, but I don’t even necessarily agree with the first part of your post regarding the “job ” of a buyer and a seller. And the same goes for most of the rest of it.
Okay. No problem. Not the first time and won't be the last time I thought differently than the majority.
One last thing.
caveat emptor
You aren’t “thinking differently than the majority,” you just aren’t thinking.
Moxie your logic, and I use that term loosely, Is lacking. Ford can sell their truck for whatever they want as long as it is not advertised as new and in fact it was involved in a flood, so not new and infact damaged. You can spin it anyway you want but you know it is BS
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Because he only has to sell a handful to cover multiple returns. He likely bought problem coins for peanuts...did his thing and resold for 100-1000 times purchase price. I imagine it was Like running coke in the 80’s you only need one shipment to make it and it would more than cover the three that got caught.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Big Al/ Thedockter or Mr. Stockton, whoever he really is, has approx 500 listings on ebay. I went through a few and all of them had this same generic description leaning towards not to clean/restore coins. So to me, that would imply, that he sells coins that aren't cleaned and if they were he would state it as so. Nowhere in his listings state he restores or cleans the coins which is contrary to the coins people buy from him. Unfortunately the buyers find out when they receive the coin. I do not know if Stockton is the same person as the doctor but if it is he is fraudulently selling cleaned coins on ebay as problem free. I'm saying, why not inform your customers that your selling restored or cleaned coins? I mean he knows inexperienced new collectors buy on ebay, it's no secret. They wouldn't know the difference until they get screwed. I guess it's ok because he offers returns. *loophole
*edit....
To me, his ebay coin descriptions appear that the seller is not an expert and is relying on opinions of an expert on condition. So if it is Stockton he is clearly lying as he owns a professional coin restoring business.
@Mgarmy said:
Moxie your logic, and I use that term loosely, Is lacking. Ford can sell their truck for whatever they want as long as it is not advertised as new and in fact it was involved in a flood, so not new and infact damaged. You can spin it anyway you want but you know it is BS
Look guys I am not defending this ebay seller or trying to belittle Ford.
My logic is simply this
The buyer is an ADULT
As such he needs to be aware of what he is doing
He is responsible for his actions
So where is that logic lacking???
If the said adult buyer decides he wants to buy a coin and goes on ebay and finds this coin that he likes. He then reads the seller's comments that says things like 'found in an old safe'
'nice solid coin' or whatever. He buys the coin then finds it is not what he thought. Who's fault is it?
If my logic is lacking or wrong then fine
It has served me quite well for nearly sixty years. I do not blame others for my actions. I do not cry when someone tells me it was the sellers fault that they bought something or that the buyer ripped them off when he bought their item.
So is this ebay seller lying about his coins? I do not know or care.
Your point about caveat emptor is valid however buyer can only go off of what the seller states. If the seller is deceptive...ultimate fault is ebays for allowing it. I wish our host would open a store/auction then you could buy raw with the option to have it sent to grading before it gets shipped to you. That would be awesome
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Sorry, but I don’t even necessarily agree with the first part of your post regarding the “job ” of a buyer and a seller. And the same goes for most of the rest of it.
Okay. No problem. Not the first time and won't be the last time I thought differently than the majority.
One last thing.
caveat emptor
You aren’t “thinking differently than the majority,” you just aren’t thinking.
Theconsignmenthub? Don't like the policies, don't buy from him. How hard is that? And unless he's an ANA member, I'm not sure what the ANA can do about it.
@MasonG said:
” Theconsignmenthub? Don't like the policies, don't buy from him. How hard is that? And unless he's an ANA member, I'm not sure what the ANA can do about it.”- mason g
I think he doth protest to much...perhaps Some supporting shitty sellers have sold some questionable merchandise themselves. -mgarmy
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@Mgarmy said:
Moxie your logic, and I use that term loosely, Is lacking. Ford can sell their truck for whatever they want as long as it is not advertised as new and in fact it was involved in a flood, so not new and infact damaged. You can spin it anyway you want but you know it is BS
Look guys I am not defending this ebay seller or trying to belittle Ford.
My logic is simply this
The buyer is an ADULT
As such he needs to be aware of what he is doing
He is responsible for his actions
So where is that logic lacking???
If the said adult buyer decides he wants to buy a coin and goes on ebay and finds this coin that he likes. He then reads the seller's comments that says things like 'found in an old safe'
'nice solid coin' or whatever. He buys the coin then finds it is not what he thought. Who's fault is it?
If my logic is lacking or wrong then fine
It has served me quite well for nearly sixty years. I do not blame others for my actions. I do not cry when someone tells me it was the sellers fault that they bought something or that the buyer ripped them off when he bought their item.
So is this ebay seller lying about his coins? I do not know or care.
Contracts are based on many factors, both parties need to operate in good faith; since the ebay seller is obviously selling under dishonest terms he has no legal defense. Is Armen Vartian still writing on these topics?
Your arguments are so odious in defense of bad business practices that they need to be confronted with the sternest terms. A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact for the contract; pricing is based on verifiable grading. The same applies to every other industry where grading and quality levels are vital aspects of the business.
Contracts are based on many factors, both parties need to operate in good faith; since the ebay seller is obviously selling under dishonest terms he has no legal defense. Is Armen Vartian still writing on these topics?
Your arguments are so odious in defense of bad business practices that they need to be confronted with the sternest terms. A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact for the contract; pricing is based on verifiable grading. The same applies to every other industry where grading and quality levels are vital aspects of the business.
well I am astonished where this has gone.
I read the OP where he calls an ebay seller a crook who is scamming people (his words).
I argued that the seller had to take responsibility for buying something that he did not know enough about.
Since then my ethics have been questioned, I have been told that my logic is lacking, accused of defending bad business practices, not thinking, and my arguments are odious, among other things.
So now what?
I admit defeat, I was wrong. The buyer is not responsible for his action, the seller is evil.
@Mgarmy said:
Moxie your logic, and I use that term loosely, Is lacking. Ford can sell their truck for whatever they want as long as it is not advertised as new and in fact it was involved in a flood, so not new and infact damaged. You can spin it anyway you want but you know it is BS
Look guys I am not defending this ebay seller or trying to belittle Ford.
My logic is simply this
The buyer is an ADULT
As such he needs to be aware of what he is doing
He is responsible for his actions
So where is that logic lacking???
If the said adult buyer decides he wants to buy a coin and goes on ebay and finds this coin that he likes. He then reads the seller's comments that says things like 'found in an old safe'
'nice solid coin' or whatever. He buys the coin then finds it is not what he thought. Who's fault is it?
If my logic is lacking or wrong then fine
It has served me quite well for nearly sixty years. I do not blame others for my actions. I do not cry when someone tells me it was the sellers fault that they bought something or that the buyer ripped them off when he bought their item.
So is this ebay seller lying about his coins? I do not know or care.
Contracts are based on many factors, both parties need to operate in good faith; since the ebay seller is obviously selling under dishonest terms he has no legal defense. Is Armen Vartian still writing on these topics?
Your arguments are so odious in defense of bad business practices that they need to be confronted with the sternest terms. A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact for the contract; pricing is based on verifiable grading. The same applies to every other industry where grading and quality levels are vital aspects of the business.
As despicable as I find the practices of the seller in question, I disagree with one of your assertions: “A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact for the contract; pricing is based on verifiable grading.” Grades are opinions, so I don’t believe that “statement of fact” is accurate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Though I would bow to your expertise in numismatics and the law Mark as you have tremendous experience in both, I have seen discussions on this forum that went into lawsuits against coin doctors as well as the ACG lawsuit.
I remember the k6az and accugrade issue. Always wondered how that turned out. I’ll have to read up on those threads. Heck, I’ll probably see old posts of mine... lol
@logger7 said:
Though I would bow to your expertise in numismatics and the law Mark as you have tremendous experience in both, I have seen discussions on this forum that went into lawsuits against coin doctors as well as the ACG lawsuit.
My only quibble with your previous post was your comment that “ A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact “. I wouldn't, for example, disagree that there is a pattern of material misrepresentations being made. I might be nit picking, but wouldn’t want to make an assertion that would be more difficult to back up on, a legal basis.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MasonG said:
Theconsignmenthub? Don't like the policies, don't buy from him. How hard is that? And unless he's an ANA member, I'm not sure what the ANA can do about it.
I think he doth protest to much...perhaps Some supporting shitty sellers have sold some questionable merchandise themselves.
You put words in my mouth that I did not say. Why?
“ > Theconsignmenthub? Don't like the policies, don't buy from him. How hard is that? And unless he's an ANA member, I'm not sure what the ANA can do about it.-mason g quote”
” I think he doth protest to much...perhaps Some supporting shitty sellers have sold some questionable merchandise themselves. - mgarmy response not Mason G response. ”
Mason - fixed it
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There have been a number of threads about this particular seller. He's old news. I'm sorry that things have worked out poorly for you. I'm sorry about the wasted grading fees.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
So he has returned! After finalizing returns thru PayPal, there was one more coin that was bought w a credit card - so needed to go thru that process to recoup those funds. After everything being returned and signed for over 2 weeks ago - magically one coin is now “missing”! Without the PayPal umbrella, I’m getting this message via eBay
“ You kept this 1806 draped bust half coin and were given a full refund. Please let me know by Tuesday how you will be returning the coin or if you will be paying. I will be filing a small claims case next week and will have my attorney seek 3x damages as permitted by law. I am so sicked that it has come to this.
Return Address
Big Al
PO Box 1462
Denton tx 76202. I will open the package under surveillance and with a notary public for both of out protection.
AL”
Clearly I returned all the coins, signed for with tracking - and now this guy is trying to pull this. My ask of the community - we all know he can’t go too long without trying to resell this coin - so keep an eye open! I’ve attached pictures. Any relisting he puts out there would be helpful in case this clown keeps trying to play games. Thanks all in advance - and again - beware!! (PS - yes, lesson learned - won’t be happening to me again - too good to be true probably is )
@guinessmstr45 said:
Well the “missing” coin was apparently found by him today - so it’s now hopefully complete, I can move on and lesson learned. Thanks everyone!!
Guess he rewound the video of him opening the package to see where he put it?
@Kirk222 said:
I'm also tied up in a return to Big Al. He's slippery as heck So far I've followed all the rules of the Ebay return. He has acknowledged receipt of returned coin. I got a notice from Ebay that my funds have been returned, yet my account does not show them as returned. I'm waiting for clearance of funds now. This is the last time I'll deal with him.
Paypal refunds take a while to clear; the seller never gets their 3% back.
Sorry, but I don’t even necessarily agree with the first part of your post regarding the “job ” of a buyer and a seller. And the same goes for most of the rest of it.
Okay. No problem. Not the first time and won't be the last time I thought differently than the majority.
One last thing.
caveat emptor
You aren’t “thinking differently than the majority,” you just aren’t thinking.
@Mgarmy said:
Moxie your logic, and I use that term loosely, Is lacking. Ford can sell their truck for whatever they want as long as it is not advertised as new and in fact it was involved in a flood, so not new and infact damaged. You can spin it anyway you want but you know it is BS
Look guys I am not defending this ebay seller or trying to belittle Ford.
My logic is simply this
The buyer is an ADULT
As such he needs to be aware of what he is doing
He is responsible for his actions
So where is that logic lacking???
If the said adult buyer decides he wants to buy a coin and goes on ebay and finds this coin that he likes. He then reads the seller's comments that says things like 'found in an old safe'
'nice solid coin' or whatever. He buys the coin then finds it is not what he thought. Who's fault is it?
If my logic is lacking or wrong then fine
It has served me quite well for nearly sixty years. I do not blame others for my actions. I do not cry when someone tells me it was the sellers fault that they bought something or that the buyer ripped them off when he bought their item.
So is this ebay seller lying about his coins? I do not know or care.
you are not wrong, just ignorant as to what the definition of fraud is.
the coindokterer is a classic textbook case of fraud and misrepresentation and due to your ignorance you refuse to allow others to educate you.
lieing and telling a BS story about how his coins were found in a 200 year old safe is fraud. especially since he makes no mention as to the damage on these coins nor any repairs he did to them and the coindokterer purposely trys to hide the damage in the photographs by flashing the hell out of it
Gee lets go to the store and buy some eggs. but the butter and egg guy says hey buy my eggs they came from the golden goose. you might get lucky....
knowing full well the eggs are bunk junk and garbage
Contracts are based on many factors, both parties need to operate in good faith; since the ebay seller is obviously selling under dishonest terms he has no legal defense. Is Armen Vartian still writing on these topics?
Your arguments are so odious in defense of bad business practices that they need to be confronted with the sternest terms. A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact for the contract; pricing is based on verifiable grading. The same applies to every other industry where grading and quality levels are vital aspects of the business.
well I am astonished where this has gone.
I read the OP where he calls an ebay seller a crook who is scamming people (his words).
I argued that the seller had to take responsibility for buying something that he did not know enough about.
Since then my ethics have been questioned, I have been told that my logic is lacking, accused of defending bad business practices, not thinking, and my arguments are odious, among other things.
So now what?
I admit defeat, I was wrong. The buyer is not responsible for his action, the seller is evil.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Herr dockterer is a vile slimeball. the OP and adherents are infantile crybabies. to bemoan the deceitful practices yields nothing. CHANGE. sale mediums are rife with foul practioners. look at ebay coin arena alone. anyone here who cannot list innumerable scoundrels there? or the auction houses. no offense to mssr feld (and sorry don't necessarily care what you agree with). their intentions and mechanisations are oftimes dishonest (omitted info, disingenuous imaging, presorting product, manipulations between houses of crap items, all sales final, et al.). what about your ignominious lcs? think that pall cast without justification? grow up, educate self (and trial by fire helpful facet), or exact a comeuppance on your perceived perpetrator, and shut up
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Comments
While your envelopes-scenario was apples to oranges, based on your position at the bottom of your post, it appears that we’re in agreement, after all.👍
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Sorry, but I don’t even necessarily agree with the first part of your post regarding the “job ” of a buyer and a seller. And the same goes for most of the rest of it.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Great info. I’ve seen the guy on eBay, never bought from him. That would be a shame if his father had a legitimate trade, that he has now ruined.
Okay. No problem. Not the first time and won't be the last time I thought differently than the majority.
One last thing.
caveat emptor
He actually very often lists coins as UNCIRCULATED, BU, MS, etc. And if he bought them already slabbed/graded as anything BUT those, then cracked them out and listed as such, then it is deceitful, nothing less.
You aren’t “thinking differently than the majority,” you just aren’t thinking.
This guy is a scourge.
It's fraud pure and simple to engage in false representation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_fraud
The law is largely based on ethics. To defend dishonest practices is always asking for trouble.
Moxie your logic, and I use that term loosely, Is lacking. Ford can sell their truck for whatever they want as long as it is not advertised as new and in fact it was involved in a flood, so not new and infact damaged. You can spin it anyway you want but you know it is BS
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
This is a follow up to my comment above. I don't see how ebay continues to let this guy sell(unless he is paying the FV fees). Personally I think the guy is just shilling a lot of his coins up and not shipping much out. If he is how long can he keep eating the costs of returns...especially now that Paypal is keeping the fees. I've seen him sell this coin around a dozen times(literally!) and what it realized this time is probably the average price it ends at.
https://ebay.com/itm/1896-S-Barber-Half-Dollar-APPEARS-UNCIRCULATED-San-Fran-Colorful-ms-50c-Silver-/293474913582?hash=item445477cd2e%3Ag%3AgYgAAOSwRi9eRcgJ&nma=true&si=yV%252BFJDA4799j5lq5OE%252B3ESvzmac%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Because he only has to sell a handful to cover multiple returns. He likely bought problem coins for peanuts...did his thing and resold for 100-1000 times purchase price. I imagine it was Like running coke in the 80’s you only need one shipment to make it and it would more than cover the three that got caught.
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Big Al/ Thedockter or Mr. Stockton, whoever he really is, has approx 500 listings on ebay. I went through a few and all of them had this same generic description leaning towards not to clean/restore coins. So to me, that would imply, that he sells coins that aren't cleaned and if they were he would state it as so. Nowhere in his listings state he restores or cleans the coins which is contrary to the coins people buy from him. Unfortunately the buyers find out when they receive the coin. I do not know if Stockton is the same person as the doctor but if it is he is fraudulently selling cleaned coins on ebay as problem free. I'm saying, why not inform your customers that your selling restored or cleaned coins? I mean he knows inexperienced new collectors buy on ebay, it's no secret. They wouldn't know the difference until they get screwed. I guess it's ok because he offers returns. *loophole
*edit....
To me, his ebay coin descriptions appear that the seller is not an expert and is relying on opinions of an expert on condition. So if it is Stockton he is clearly lying as he owns a professional coin restoring business.
Look guys I am not defending this ebay seller or trying to belittle Ford.
My logic is simply this
The buyer is an ADULT
As such he needs to be aware of what he is doing
He is responsible for his actions
So where is that logic lacking???
If the said adult buyer decides he wants to buy a coin and goes on ebay and finds this coin that he likes. He then reads the seller's comments that says things like 'found in an old safe'
'nice solid coin' or whatever. He buys the coin then finds it is not what he thought. Who's fault is it?
If my logic is lacking or wrong then fine
It has served me quite well for nearly sixty years. I do not blame others for my actions. I do not cry when someone tells me it was the sellers fault that they bought something or that the buyer ripped them off when he bought their item.
So is this ebay seller lying about his coins? I do not know or care.
Your point about caveat emptor is valid however buyer can only go off of what the seller states. If the seller is deceptive...ultimate fault is ebays for allowing it. I wish our host would open a store/auction then you could buy raw with the option to have it sent to grading before it gets shipped to you. That would be awesome
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
you just aren’t thinking.
>
Not thinking?
Okay, fine. Whatever.
Theconsignmenthub? Don't like the policies, don't buy from him. How hard is that? And unless he's an ANA member, I'm not sure what the ANA can do about it.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
Contracts are based on many factors, both parties need to operate in good faith; since the ebay seller is obviously selling under dishonest terms he has no legal defense. Is Armen Vartian still writing on these topics?
Your arguments are so odious in defense of bad business practices that they need to be confronted with the sternest terms. A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact for the contract; pricing is based on verifiable grading. The same applies to every other industry where grading and quality levels are vital aspects of the business.
well I am astonished where this has gone.
I read the OP where he calls an ebay seller a crook who is scamming people (his words).
I argued that the seller had to take responsibility for buying something that he did not know enough about.
Since then my ethics have been questioned, I have been told that my logic is lacking, accused of defending bad business practices, not thinking, and my arguments are odious, among other things.
So now what?
I admit defeat, I was wrong. The buyer is not responsible for his action, the seller is evil.
As despicable as I find the practices of the seller in question, I disagree with one of your assertions: “A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact for the contract; pricing is based on verifiable grading.” Grades are opinions, so I don’t believe that “statement of fact” is accurate.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Though I would bow to your expertise in numismatics and the law Mark as you have tremendous experience in both, I have seen discussions on this forum that went into lawsuits against coin doctors as well as the ACG lawsuit.
This thread discussed at length legal aspects of sellers putting grades on uncertified coins: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/295472/another-court-case-involving-grading/p1
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/289189/criminal-liability-for-subjective-grading/p1
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/776888/i-just-read-the-complaint-filed-in-the-pcgs-lawsuit-funny-thing-is-that
I remember the k6az and accugrade issue. Always wondered how that turned out. I’ll have to read up on those threads. Heck, I’ll probably see old posts of mine... lol
My only quibble with your previous post was your comment that “ A seller by claiming a certain grade or condition has made a statement of fact “. I wouldn't, for example, disagree that there is a pattern of material misrepresentations being made. I might be nit picking, but wouldn’t want to make an assertion that would be more difficult to back up on, a legal basis.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You put words in my mouth that I did not say. Why?
I read through those threads. Fascinating to see it all again. Can’t believe I had over 13000 posts back then.
Mason - fixed it
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Your post on February 21, 2020 9:37PM still has me saying something I did not say. Maybe you can fix that?
There have been a number of threads about this particular seller. He's old news. I'm sorry that things have worked out poorly for you. I'm sorry about the wasted grading fees.
Mason done
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
So he has returned! After finalizing returns thru PayPal, there was one more coin that was bought w a credit card - so needed to go thru that process to recoup those funds. After everything being returned and signed for over 2 weeks ago - magically one coin is now “missing”! Without the PayPal umbrella, I’m getting this message via eBay
“ You kept this 1806 draped bust half coin and were given a full refund. Please let me know by Tuesday how you will be returning the coin or if you will be paying. I will be filing a small claims case next week and will have my attorney seek 3x damages as permitted by law. I am so sicked that it has come to this.
Return Address
Big Al
PO Box 1462
Denton tx 76202. I will open the package under surveillance and with a notary public for both of out protection.
AL”
Clearly I returned all the coins, signed for with tracking - and now this guy is trying to pull this. My ask of the community - we all know he can’t go too long without trying to resell this coin - so keep an eye open! I’ve attached pictures. Any relisting he puts out there would be helpful in case this clown keeps trying to play games. Thanks all in advance - and again - beware!! (PS - yes, lesson learned - won’t be happening to me again - too good to be true probably is
)
where will he file in small claims court that will affect you? (I am not a lawyer and not sure what states involved)
It looks like the coin probably came from Heritage last year, before cleaned up
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-dollars/half-dollars/1806-50c-pointed-6-no-stem-o-109a-t-15-r3-au53-pcgs-pcgs-39311-/a/1294-3454.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
Well the “missing” coin was apparently found by him today - so it’s now hopefully complete, I can move on and lesson learned. Thanks everyone!!
Guess he rewound the video of him opening the package to see where he put it?
Paypal refunds take a while to clear; the seller never gets their 3% back.
Make sure yall leave appropriate negative comments for him. No cussing, no name calling, just facts.
Then keep an eye on it to see if he gets it removed.....................
the part about fraud Sounds like a very accurate description of the coindokterer
if you don't know or don't care then why reply to the posts.
obviously you do care enough to post your comment.
are you the coindokterer????
you are not wrong, just ignorant as to what the definition of fraud is.
the coindokterer is a classic textbook case of fraud and misrepresentation and due to your ignorance you refuse to allow others to educate you.
lieing and telling a BS story about how his coins were found in a 200 year old safe is fraud. especially since he makes no mention as to the damage on these coins nor any repairs he did to them and the coindokterer purposely trys to hide the damage in the photographs by flashing the hell out of it
Gee lets go to the store and buy some eggs. but the butter and egg guy says hey buy my eggs they came from the golden goose. you might get lucky....
knowing full well the eggs are bunk junk and garbage
Moxie = doktor🤔...no way don’t think it so
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
...biG al seems like he has more teeth than IQ points...and it’s notoriously hard to keep teeth attached to gums in West Virginia
Herr dockterer is a vile slimeball. the OP and adherents are infantile crybabies. to bemoan the deceitful practices yields nothing. CHANGE. sale mediums are rife with foul practioners. look at ebay coin arena alone. anyone here who cannot list innumerable scoundrels there? or the auction houses. no offense to mssr feld (and sorry don't necessarily care what you agree with). their intentions and mechanisations are oftimes dishonest (omitted info, disingenuous imaging, presorting product, manipulations between houses of crap items, all sales final, et al.). what about your ignominious lcs? think that pall cast without justification? grow up, educate self (and trial by fire helpful facet), or exact a comeuppance on your perceived perpetrator, and shut up
Adhesive side up?
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
...Alt facts always sound sweeter from an Alt account...with no balls to back, it’s the same as a fart in the wind...carry on
For someone so despised the "dockter" sure gets a lot of attention. 99 comments and growing. Hmmm.