I always liked this coin. It's the oldest classic US gold coin that's affordable to most collectors. Coins older than this one are very expensive because this is the year the government revalued gold. Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design. The ratio of value between the old style gold coins and the newer style gold coins that followed is 15 to 16. In other words you could send $150 in old style gold coins to the mint and they would recoin it into $160 in new style gold coins for a nice $10 profit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
A little more info on your coin. There were 9 die marriages of the 1834 HE. Yours represents about 6% of known survivors, making it an R-4 Rarity. It is actually about as rare as the 1834 Crosslet 4. Almost all coins of this die marriage have the same obverse die crack.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
Actually, this is a great example of a story that has been retold so many times that it must be true. But it is not, it is Numislore. There was no great melt of old standard coins at the Mint after the 1834 change to the gold standard. Only about 7% of the old standard coins were melted at the U.S. Mint and recoined.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
Actually, this is a great example of a story that has been retold so many times that it must be true. But it is not, it is Numislore. There was no great melt of old standard coins at the Mint after the 1834 change to the gold standard. Only about 7% of the old standard coins were melted at the U.S. Mint and recoined.
Quite a few of the older pre-1834 gold coins were exported because their gold value was high compared to their face value. That's why the gold content was reduced in 1834 to keep more gold coins at home.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
Actually, this is a great example of a story that has been retold so many times that it must be true. But it is not, it is Numislore. There was no great melt of old standard coins at the Mint after the 1834 change to the gold standard. Only about 7% of the old standard coins were melted at the U.S. Mint and recoined.
Quite a few of the older pre-1834 gold coins were exported because their gold value was high compared to their face value. That's why the gold content was reduced in 1834 to keep more gold coins at home.
Agreed.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
it is Numislore.
I hadn’t heard this, or the stance that it’s not true (I had heard the previous series were exported though). Just wondering if anyone has sources? I’d like to read up on it.
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
it is Numislore.
I hadn’t heard this, or the stance that it’s not true (I had heard the previous series were exported though). Just wondering if anyone has sources? I’d like to read up on it.
It will be explained in my upcoming book, United States Classic Gold Coins: 1834-1839. A primary source of information comes directly from the Annual Reports of the U.S. Mint prepared by the Mint Director and filed with the Secretary of Treasury. Only about 7% of the U.S. gold coins of the old standard were sent to the Mint for melting, with most of those sent within the first couple of months from specie deposits at two large banks.
Mint Director Samuel Moore did not "correctly anticipate that enormous numbers of old-tenor gold coins (1795-1834) of all kinds would be brought in for recoinage", as Breen states in his Encycolpedia. More Numislore. In fact, at first, Moore did not believe that he had the legal authority to accept U.S. coins as deposits at the Mint.
Less than 10% of all Classic Gold coins minted from 1834 to 1839 were made with gold from old standard U.S. coins. The vast majority of gold came from foreign gold coins and bullion. French indemnity payments, gold from the southern mines, and coins imported from Europe, Mexico, and South America were large sources.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
it is Numislore.
I hadn’t heard this, or the stance that it’s not true (I had heard the previous series were exported though). Just wondering if anyone has sources? I’d like to read up on it.
It will be explained in my upcoming book, United States Classic Gold Coins: 1834-1839. A primary source of information comes directly from the Annual Reports of the U.S. Mint prepared by the Mint Director and filed with the Secretary of Treasury. Only about 7% of the U.S. gold coins of the old standard were sent to the Mint for melting, with most of those sent within the first couple of months from specie deposits at two large banks.
Mint Director Samuel Moore did not "correctly anticipate that enormous numbers of old-tenor gold coins (1795-1834) of all kinds would be brought in for recoinage", as Breen states in his Encycolpedia. More Numislore. In fact, at first, Moore did not believe that he had the legal authority to accept U.S. coins as deposits at the Mint.
Less than 10% of all Classic Gold coins minted form 1834 to 1839 were made with gold from old standard U.S. coins. The vast majority came from foreign gold coins and bullion. French indemnity payments, gold from the southern mines, and coins imported from Europe, Mexico, and South America were large sources.
Oh, I set you up for that! Good info, I’m looking forward to this book. Let us know when it’s out.
I kick myself (well....not really) for selling this type back in the 80's for nearly the same as Libs.
NOBODY wanted them. Well, one guy did. He was smart. He's dead now.
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
it is Numislore.
I hadn’t heard this, or the stance that it’s not true (I had heard the previous series were exported though). Just wondering if anyone has sources? I’d like to read up on it.
It will be explained in my upcoming book, United States Classic Gold Coins: 1834-1839. A primary source of information comes directly from the Annual Reports of the U.S. Mint prepared by the Mint Director and filed with the Secretary of Treasury. Only about 7% of the U.S. gold coins of the old standard were sent to the Mint for melting, with most of those sent within the first couple of months from specie deposits at two large banks.
Mint Director Samuel Moore did not "correctly anticipate that enormous numbers of old-tenor gold coins (1795-1834) of all kinds would be brought in for recoinage", as Breen states in his Encycolpedia. More Numislore. In fact, at first, Moore did not believe that he had the legal authority to accept U.S. coins as deposits at the Mint.
Less than 10% of all Classic Gold coins minted from 1834 to 1839 were made with gold from old standard U.S. coins. The vast majority of gold came from foreign gold coins and bullion. French indemnity payments, gold from the southern mines, and coins imported from Europe, Mexico, and South America were large sources.
But isn't that 7% figure based upon the total population struck from 1795 to early 1834? Most of that was long gone by 1834, presumably overseas but that does not matter for this question.
The important question is: What percentage of the U.S. gold coinage actually in the United States on the day the standards changed got sent to the Mint and recoined? I will bet you that it is a lot higher than 7%.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@PerryHall said:
Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design.
it is Numislore.
I hadn’t heard this, or the stance that it’s not true (I had heard the previous series were exported though). Just wondering if anyone has sources? I’d like to read up on it.
It will be explained in my upcoming book, United States Classic Gold Coins: 1834-1839. A primary source of information comes directly from the Annual Reports of the U.S. Mint prepared by the Mint Director and filed with the Secretary of Treasury. Only about 7% of the U.S. gold coins of the old standard were sent to the Mint for melting, with most of those sent within the first couple of months from specie deposits at two large banks.
Mint Director Samuel Moore did not "correctly anticipate that enormous numbers of old-tenor gold coins (1795-1834) of all kinds would be brought in for recoinage", as Breen states in his Encycolpedia. More Numislore. In fact, at first, Moore did not believe that he had the legal authority to accept U.S. coins as deposits at the Mint.
Less than 10% of all Classic Gold coins minted form 1834 to 1839 were made with gold from old standard U.S. coins. The vast majority came from foreign gold coins and bullion. French indemnity payments, gold from the southern mines, and coins imported from Europe, Mexico, and South America were large sources.
Oh, I set you up for that! Good info, I’m looking forward to this book. Let us know when it’s out.
Yes you did, thanks.
Sorry @realone , guess I hijacked your thread. Nice coin, collect more Classic Gold!
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
@topstuf said:
I kick myself (well....not really) for selling this type back in the 80's for nearly the same as Libs.
NOBODY wanted them. Well, one guy did. He was smart. He's dead now.
Given the choice of smart and dead and alive and sans classic gold I’m picking the later. Enjoy
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I purchased that coin years ago in the OGH, sent it to CAC where it received a gold sticker and then offered it to my clients where one of the PCGS board members purchased it. The top two images were mine from a half-dozen or so years ago.
Realone
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AWESOME !!!!
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That doesn't strike me as your kind of coin - what attracted you to it?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Nice coin!
I always liked this coin. It's the oldest classic US gold coin that's affordable to most collectors. Coins older than this one are very expensive because this is the year the government revalued gold. Most of the old style gold coins were melted and recoined using this new design. The ratio of value between the old style gold coins and the newer style gold coins that followed is 15 to 16. In other words you could send $150 in old style gold coins to the mint and they would recoin it into $160 in new style gold coins for a nice $10 profit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Nice i like
Very nice - one of my favorite designs.
That was the one from bst right?
A little more info on your coin. There were 9 die marriages of the 1834 HE. Yours represents about 6% of known survivors, making it an R-4 Rarity. It is actually about as rare as the 1834 Crosslet 4. Almost all coins of this die marriage have the same obverse die crack.
Actually, this is a great example of a story that has been retold so many times that it must be true. But it is not, it is Numislore. There was no great melt of old standard coins at the Mint after the 1834 change to the gold standard. Only about 7% of the old standard coins were melted at the U.S. Mint and recoined.
Quite a few of the older pre-1834 gold coins were exported because their gold value was high compared to their face value. That's why the gold content was reduced in 1834 to keep more gold coins at home.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Mongo approved
Agreed.
Nice gold coin... I like the Eagle on the reverse.... a lot of good detail on the feet and feathers. Cheers, RickO
I hadn’t heard this, or the stance that it’s not true (I had heard the previous series were exported though). Just wondering if anyone has sources? I’d like to read up on it.
It will be explained in my upcoming book, United States Classic Gold Coins: 1834-1839. A primary source of information comes directly from the Annual Reports of the U.S. Mint prepared by the Mint Director and filed with the Secretary of Treasury. Only about 7% of the U.S. gold coins of the old standard were sent to the Mint for melting, with most of those sent within the first couple of months from specie deposits at two large banks.
Mint Director Samuel Moore did not "correctly anticipate that enormous numbers of old-tenor gold coins (1795-1834) of all kinds would be brought in for recoinage", as Breen states in his Encycolpedia. More Numislore. In fact, at first, Moore did not believe that he had the legal authority to accept U.S. coins as deposits at the Mint.
Less than 10% of all Classic Gold coins minted from 1834 to 1839 were made with gold from old standard U.S. coins. The vast majority of gold came from foreign gold coins and bullion. French indemnity payments, gold from the southern mines, and coins imported from Europe, Mexico, and South America were large sources.
Oh, I set you up for that! Good info, I’m looking forward to this book. Let us know when it’s out.
I kick myself (well....not really) for selling this type back in the 80's for nearly the same as Libs.
NOBODY wanted them. Well, one guy did. He was smart. He's dead now.
But isn't that 7% figure based upon the total population struck from 1795 to early 1834? Most of that was long gone by 1834, presumably overseas but that does not matter for this question.
The important question is: What percentage of the U.S. gold coinage actually in the United States on the day the standards changed got sent to the Mint and recoined? I will bet you that it is a lot higher than 7%.
TD
Nice pick up.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
Yes you did, thanks.
Sorry @realone , guess I hijacked your thread. Nice coin, collect more Classic Gold!
It's okay.
Too scuffy maybe cleaned and if it’s not cleaned that picture makes it look it. Sorry
Given the choice of smart and dead and alive and sans classic gold I’m picking the later. Enjoy
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Gold in OGH with gold bean — always nice to see. 😎
Nice coin and a great series to collect in both quarter and half eagles. Looking forward to the new book on classic head gold.
I purchased that coin years ago in the OGH, sent it to CAC where it received a gold sticker and then offered it to my clients where one of the PCGS board members purchased it. The top two images were mine from a half-dozen or so years ago.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson