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1921 Canadian 5 cents. What % deduction in the $ of the coin should be made if the coin is cleaned?
TheBlackKnight
Posts: 387 ✭✭✭
If a coin grades F-12 and is worth $100.00, what deduction should be made in the value if the coin is cleaned?
Should the value be adjusted to the VG value, the G value, or something else?
The impossible just takes longer.
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There is no single answer to this. Lightly cleaned? Harshly cleaned? The answer could run from 95% deduction to 10% deduction.
Details coins are funny. There was a time when the best you could do is melt/scrap/nominal value (extremely rare coins excluded). Now I see details coins in holders all over the place.
Bottom line is, what its value is to YOU, and can you live with the details that make it a details coin.
Keep in mind that, unless it's a rare coin, it will be a hard sell when you want to upgrade.
Cheers
Bob
P.S. What's the coin?
Ok here are the details.
1921 Canadian 5 cents Fine details harshly cleaned.
I've passed on a certain item in the past because it was obviously cleaned. I regret not buying it to this day! So, it is your decision what it is worth to you alone.
That is a very rare coin. I'll pay $100 for a real one.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Harshly cleaned...walk away. In the end, you probably won't be happy.
There's only 400-ish known of that coin.
It is still hard to say without knowing just how harshly cleaned. If it is covered in hairlines, you are probably still at over a thousand bucks. If it is just rubbed white, probably 2000 to 3000. Very hard coin to find even as just a hole filler.
But the implications of what others have said matters. If you are buying it, you have to be willing to tolerate the defect or it simply isn't worth it. For example, I don't mind a cleaned coin without hairlines but I hate a coin with multiple hairlines. I also can't stand a coin with a hole whether filled or not.
I would say,due to the rarity it should sell for 50-60% of a problem free coin. If lightly cleaned I would say 90%. One of about a dozen Canadian Coins I lacked from Completing the Country from 1858-around 1990.
Also, is it an old cleaning that's toned over or is it a recent cleaning where the hairlines are bright and shiny.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
A problem coin dealer would be somewhere between his cost and retail. So if retail 100 his cost 30 his sell possibly 65 leaving room for him come down to 50.
Had one setup next to me once. Said his goal get somewhere between cost and retail on them.
Full retail? That really isn't helpful at all. So, if I pay 95% of problem-free retail, I should just wait to get 97%?
I'm sure that formula makes sense AFTER you've bought it. It is, however, of zero use in trying to decide what to pay for it. It comes under the category of DUH! I mean, I paid $30 for a coin that if it wasn't cleaned would sell for $100. Of course I want more than $30, that's what I paid. And, of course I don't expect to get over $100 because that would be over retail for a problem coin.
The coin in question: https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/2841876-001/12/
Still a very rare coin.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
Why do I want the coin in the first place?
To add to my collection and help complete a set.
A) To resell at a later date and hope to make a profit.
C) Bla bla bla..
I think if you Answer the question and get the truth out of yourself, then you should know if you want to buy it or not.
Wait for a better one to come along. Thats just me
Obverse scratches are the worst of it. Gotta be $1500 at least nonetheless.
That coin should be labeled as scratched...not Harshly Cleaned!
What is the possibility you will ever get a chance to get this in any grade? If never and you want that date pay what you can afford and still be satisfied with buying it, otherwise walk away and find something else that you have been on the hunt for.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
The coin IS NOT [IMHO] HARSHLY CLEANED by my definition. It has major scratches on the obverse.
PS I see amwldcoin already posted this FACT. I should have read the thread before posting.
If I detect cleaning - any cleaning - on a coin I am considering, I walk away.....I would never be happy with such a purchase. Cheers, RickO
Some coins are altered so well that most would not know. Some cleaning is market acceptable according to the ANA Grading Guide and the major TPGS. Nevertheless, I understand your point and agree with your personal standards. Fortunately, I will buy an improperly cleaned coin on occasion. The key is to know the coin is cleaned and then to decide if it is "market acceptable."
Scratches are considered to be damage and not evidence of improper cleaning.
I carry no problem coin, I do not buy problem coins.
Problem coins are someone else's problem, why on earth would you want to turn someone else's problem into your own.
What if the Smithsonian was selling the 1849 Twenty and you wanted 1. It's the only 1 and I hear it's been scrubbed to death!
@amwldcoin ....Not a decision I would have to make, since I am sure I could not afford it.
Cheers, RickO
With a survival of about 450 pieces, I would have no problem buying that 1921 5c if the price was right.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
There is quite a vibrant market in problem coins--sometimes they will sell easier than their pristine gem counterparts.
Problem coins will sell easily if bought right, and as a buyer, you just have to have experience and a feel for what the coin will bring.
Problem error coins would indeed, I think, be a really tough sell which may be why you avoid them.