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Have you ever stopped and wondered under what circumstances, and by who, cleaned all those coins?
opportunity
Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭✭
Cleaned coins are certainly by far the biggest problem on the oldest of silver coins, especially...Bust, Seated, and plenty of others. Have you ever just stopped to think when and who in their right minds thought it would be a good idea to take a cloth to scrub all those coins? I can just picture some guy back in the 1950's with tens of thousands of dollars worth of coins, polishing away.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
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Pretty simple in my mind. If you are not a collector you would not understand the importance of originality in a coin. Wether that be luster,Crust or grime for that matter. People like shiny things
Collectible cars, guns, swords, antique toys, etc. were all cleaned.
Collectors of coins have a different standard that not everyone understood back then.
It was standard practice. Why NOT clean this purdy thang?
You cleaned your silverware didn't you?
One at a time, over many years..
Whispering "haaaaa" right onto something and wiping it with your shirt is the most natural thing in the world to do with a coin (or your eyeglasses)
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
NO.
I do agree! Sometimes it is hard to see. I am getting older and its harder for me to see anyway. I have to look out for fakes now too.
I knew a dealer, long dead, who harshly cleaned every coin he had...every coin was dead white, from AG mercs to morgans. I just walked by his booth at shows, and he'd sneer at me, I stopped once and ran. He was in business for 50 or 60 years, so who knows how many coins he ruined. He said his customers wanted white coins. I also watched a dealer once scrub lacquer off a Henry Hines large cent with an abrasive coin cloth...I almost cried.
I have a little display at my workplace where customers can see various world coins and currency representing countries from which my clientele have emigrated. Just the other day one of them remarked that they had some similar examples that they intended to "shine up" to look nice like an uncirculated example that I have on display. I tried to explain that the ones on display were not cleaned but were less circulated and still retained original surfaces. They understood. Of course just like back in 6th grade with my paper route coins- the shinier the better- and I remember using pencil eraser to clean up Indian head cents and early Lincolns.
From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_(coinage)
"By the 1930s the motto "brilliant is best" was adopted by those in the coin collecting community. Coins that were toned were considered tarnished which caused collectors to brighten up their coins with things like abrasives.[2] Penny boards were even made with instructions on how collectors should properly clean their coins by using a pencil eraser with a little bit of vinegar. The widespread practice of "improving" coins continued into the 1960s with advertisements on lotions and potions with the aim of making coins brilliant again.[3] According to Q. David Bowers, collectors and coin dealers cleaned and dipped their coins then re-dipped them when the toning re-appeared as a result of these messages.[3] Bowers estimated in 1960 that 90 to 95% of the Lincoln cents sold in the marketplace dated 1910 through the late 1920s were brilliant as a result of dipping.[4] "
At one point... when I was about 10 years old... it was common practice to clean silver coins with cream of tartar and water. I personally am responsible for ruining about 10 or so Morgan Dollars in this manner. I learned this from the dealer at the brick & mortar shop I used to frequent as a method of removing the grime in the devices... ouch! The good news... the first step is realizing this is wrong!!
...I'm well on the road to recovery. I wish I could say the same thing for the Morgan Dollars I ruined... :-/
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Some good recollections and historical perspectives above, but it is still an issue today.
There have been recent threads on this forum where people inquire about the best ways to clean coins.
I remember using Brasso to shine my circulated IKEs when I was a kid, mid to late 70s. You don't know, what you don't know I guess.
This biggest problem concerning today's market is not coins that were cleaned years ago, it's coins that have been deceptively altered (and sometimes get by graders) and increasingly clever counterfeits.
People were routinely cleaning coins in the 1970's. Fifty years ago, I had a part-time summer job doing precisely that. When business was slow, the owner would pitch in and clean coins too. Not just soapy water---acetone, MEK, hexane, etc. were used. Even now, some coin docs use more exotic solvents, like trichloroethylene. Customers wanted bright coins, which meant that acidic dips were far more popular than today. Even then, using rotary brushes was frowned on (moved too much metal, producing 'whizzed' coins). Polished and badly hairlined coins were everywhere. What brought a halt to this was the advent of TPGs that were widely accepted by collectors.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Years and years ago I was new at dealing and had placed an ad locally for "old coins" or such. I got a response from a very nice elderly lady who indicated she had some and would like to sell them. I made an appointment to come to her home to view and buy. So the next day at about 10am I showed for the appointment. There on the dining table was, in full glory, two empty bottles of silver polish remover and a jar of paste tarnish remover. Of course there were dozens of UNC silver dollars that had all been nicely ruined.
She indicated that she spent "till wee hours in the morning" polishing them all for me so I wouldn't have to do it. I counted 14 rolls of all common date Morgans from the 1880's. Oddly there were probably a dozen coins that were not polished out of the whole batch. I said "you missed these" and she responded she didn't think they needed polishing as they were already bright and shiny. She said so many of them were all tarnished up, ugly red, green, yellow, etc.
After explaining as gently as I could I paid her melt and left with a bunch of bullion.
First thing out of my mouth after that event, on every phone call, is to tell them NOT TO DO ANYTHING TO THEM, LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE.
So, at least I know how about 250 silver dollars ended up that way.
bob
Sadly, many collections are cleaned bright white right before they are taken to the coin store to be sold.
Someone collects coins for 40-50 years, then passes away. The spouse cleans all these dirty old coins before visiting the coin store the next day, to sell the collection. Very sad. Luckily, many of the greatest coins in the world have been slabbed, and will avoid this fate.
Dave
No, I know who did it, young, ignorant - child ME.
I have never wondered about that... I cleaned cents as a kid....Pencil eraser made them look really nice...At one time, it was a standard practice....original skin and tarnish was not worshiped as it is today. Cheers, RickO
Yes ... I do believe that thought crossed my mind at one time or another.
Many years ago I would see dealer say" Let me shin that up for you" and take out a hankie then rub the coin with it.
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Get the dirt off and make 'em clean and shiny! The educated know better, the uneducated polish away as do some
shady dealers.
To me cleaning coins is like finger nails on a black board......screech
While I will not provoke violence; I sure would like to say those who cleaned all those coins - were !@#$%^&*() idiots!!
Ok, I feel better
WS
A lot of people and newcomers in the hobby simply did not know any better. I heard of a story in the baseball collecting world that a man came into possession an album of vintage baseball cards (a relative or friend must have passed, but don't remember precisely). He took the time to look up the cards in the price guide at the time and wrote the values on the card so he would not forget!!!
When he took the album to various dealers, they didn't want to even make an offer on the cards. He thought they were squeezing him.....FACE PALM
You don't have to know much about cards to see why this was wrong.
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Imagine what these could do for coins?
Silver, copper and brass are all covered!
@Zoins
A reputable dealer recently told me silver dip like pictured above removes haze on proofs. What else could it remove!?
When I was a kid I use to clean coins with pencil erasers and baking soda.
If dipping is considered to be cleaning, many coins were cleaned by coin dealers to make them more marketable to their customers. Most collectors don't like ugly splotchy tarnish.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Cleanliness is next to godliness".... my momma always said. Then came coins and ungodliness.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Lots of people used TarnX in the 70s, also. I admit, I was one of them, as a kid. We didn't know better. Fortunately, NONE of my coins were worth more than $10.00 at that time!
https://clrbrands.com/en-us/Products/Tarn-X/Tarn-X-Tarnish-Remover
Rocking my "shiny-object-syndrome"!!!
It was very common in the 19th century. EVERYONE did it. It's actually more amazing that there are any early 19th century silver coins that weren't scrubbed along with the dinner silver.
Ironically, coins that were cleaned back in the day were probably cleaned by collectors. The uncleaned survivors may be coins that escaped the attention and good intentions of collectors.
true. Only the forgotten were saved. LOL
I did my share of polishing coins in the 50's with my mom's silver polish. I also remember trying a new cleaner called comet to remove the black tarnish from a silver dollar. No matter how much I scrubbed the coin I could not get it to look like new.
I had a client who purchased about half a Morgan Dollar set (slabbed and he had me crack them to put in his book). He came back to sell them to me and they were all cleaned. He had said that in some Morgan Dollar book, i don't remember which, had the quote, "In year (not sure) so and so gave the unfortunate advice that to make your silver coins brighter you need to boil them in a mix of water and lemon juice". When I pointed out the words "unfortunate advice" his heart sank. So I think back in the day, everyone was doing it.
I have a compound called “soft scrub” that does a real good job of polishing most coins. It works very well on unc 1936 coins making them look just like a brilliant proof, and for just a small fraction of the cost.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
This would be disturbing if I didn't know it was a joke.
That being said, there are some sellers on the bay who try to pass polished circulation strike 1936 coins as proofs
Collector, occasional seller
That is a good point. So IS dipping considered cleaning?
Some think it is cleaning while others think it's okay if it isn't done to excess.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Reminds me of a show years ago where I bought a nice original raw peace dollar. The dealer gave it a quick dip in ezest and handed it to me. Couldn’t believe it.
There is a scrip dealer on eBay that either cleans every piece or has a massive inventory of cleaned scrip. Every piece is shiny new. !