Trying to research this Chinese encased postage stamp/bank token

WorldCoinsDmitry

... and so far coming up with nothing. I haven't even been able to find any info on this Chin Tai bank. All I have found out is that the stamp was issued in 1931. Any info or lead is greatly appreciated

Insider2

Perhaps it is "emergency money" issued by the Chinese Nationalists. The communists would have wiped out all records of the existence of these. Where did you get it and is the stamp actually "encased" (covered by something to protect it?

jt88

Nice. I like it.

WorldCoinsDmitry

@Insider2 said:
Perhaps it is "emergency money" issued by the Chinese Nationalists. The communists would have wiped out all records of the existence of these. Where did you get it and is the stamp actually "encased" (covered by something to protect it?

I guess not technically encased. It's on a paper insert surrounded by a metal ring. Thank you for the historic context, I'll have to look further into that.

ffcoins

On the stamp:

伍分(five “fen” cents)
中華民國郵政 (Republic of China Postal Service)
Image of Sun Yat-sen

Obverse of paper insert:
勤泰錢莊 (Qintai private bank)

Reverse of paper insert:
江？西路 (first character looks like 江 but I’m not sure— tr. as either “something” West Street or Jiangxi Street)
三一二號 (Number 312)
一三一二九 電話 (Phone: 13129)
Middle says “Qintai Private Bank” again

I can’t read the characters on the bottom very clearly, but it’s more of the address in Shanghai.

It would be from between 1912 and 1949, the “Republic” era, as you wouldn’t see that Kuomintang star on the stamp on anything made in Shanghai after the Communists took over (nor private banks, for that matter).

Quite possible the stamp and the paper token were originally unrelated.

WorldCoinsDmitry

@ffcoins said:
On the stamp:

伍分(five “fen” cents)
中華民國郵政 (Republic of China Postal Service)
Image of Sun Yat-sen

Obverse of paper insert:
勤泰錢莊 (Qintai private bank)

Reverse of paper insert:
江？西路 (first character looks like 江 but I’m not sure— tr. as either “something” West Street or Jiangxi Street)
三一二號 (Number 312)
一三一二九 電話 (Phone: 13129)
Middle says “Qintai Private Bank” again

I can’t read the characters on the bottom very clearly, but it’s more of the address in Shanghai.

It would be from between 1912 and 1949, the “Republic” era, as you wouldn’t see that Kuomintang star on the stamp on anything made in Shanghai after the Communists took over (nor private banks, for that matter).

Quite possible the stamp and the paper token were originally unrelated.

Thank you very much for the translation and insight

291fifth

@Insider2 said:
Perhaps it is "emergency money" issued by the Chinese Nationalists. The communists would have wiped out all records of the existence of these. Where did you get it and is the stamp actually "encased" (covered by something to protect it?

"The communists would have wiped out all records of the existence of these". What is your source for this statement? Is this fact or just "if it is online it must be true" history?

Moxie15

The 'Four Olds' Old culture. Old Customs, Old Ideas, and Old habits were the targets of destruction during the Cultural Revolution of the 1960's'

A private bank would hit at least three of the four, so Qintai Private Bank would not have had much of a chance

291fifth

@Moxie15 said:
The 'Four Olds' Old culture. Old Customs, Old Ideas, and Old habits were the targets of destruction during the Cultural Revolution of the 1960's'

A private bank would hit at least three of the four, so Qintai Private Bank would not have had much of a chance

The issue of encased postage would have been long out of use by the time of the cultural revolution. I doubt if it would have been affected at all.

Moxie15

@291fifth said:

@Moxie15 said:
The 'Four Olds' Old culture. Old Customs, Old Ideas, and Old habits were the targets of destruction during the Cultural Revolution of the 1960's'

A private bank would hit at least three of the four, so Qintai Private Bank would not have had much of a chance

The issue of encased postage would have been long out of use by the time of the cultural revolution. I doubt if it would have been affected at all.

Yep. I am sure you are correct.
If it was out of use they would have not bothered with it.

ffcoins

The bank would have been gone right away, in ‘49 or ‘50. As would anything bearing Kuomintang insignia. I’m not sure what the early Mao-era postal system looked like, but this token wouldn’t have been accepted, nor would it have been a good idea to be in possession of it anytime between ‘49 and ‘76–violent governmental overthrows, and the violent installation of one-party systems, tend to involve purges of the previous govts/parties and the marks they left on their country. The transition in China was not an exception.

It’s likely this piece either somehow made its way to Taiwan when the Nationalists fled or was brought out of the country as a souvenir before that. Shanghai during the ‘20s-‘30s was extremely international.

SaorAlba

Inflation, particularly after 1937 rendered the piece a mere curiousity prior to WWII and the Chinese Civil War. Also Sun Yat Sen, the man depicted on the token, is regarded as a historic figure even in the People's Republic of China - mainly for founding the Republic in 1912.

As an aside, the Chinese Civil War and the war with Japan created an interesting situation for the US government - trying to get the Nationalists under Chiang Kai Sek and the Communists under Mao Tse Dung to put aside their differences and fight the more dangerous enemy - Japan. Curiously the Communists were on board, but the Nationalists really never were. The Japanese were well suited to take advantage of the situation with the Chinese busy killing each other.

ffcoins

@SaorAlba said:
Inflation, particularly after 1937 rendered the piece a mere curiousity prior to WWII and the Chinese Civil War. Also Sun Yat Sen, the man depicted on the token, is regarded as a historic figure even in the People's Republic of China - mainly for founding the Republic in 1912.

As an aside, the Chinese Civil War and the war with Japan created an interesting situation for the US government - trying to get the Nationalists under Chiang Kai Sek and the Communists under Mao Tse Dung to put aside their differences and fight the more dangerous enemy - Japan. Curiously the Communists were on board, but the Nationalists really never were. The Japanese were well suited to take advantage of the situation with the Chinese busy killing each other.

*Sun Yat-sen is regarded as a positive historic figure. Even Chiang Kai-shek is regarded as a historic figure in the PRC, but a bad one

*the Communists were happy to pretend to work together whilst hiding out in Yan an, recuperating from years of civil war and letting the Nationalists fight the Japanese (they had also been losing the civil war so a truce was an obvious good choice). This “letting the other guys fight” was the same tactic Mao used on the other communist commanders when he was climbing the ranks in the party

Urmelade

Actually 11 different companies with encased postages from Shanghai and one from Hankow are known.
For the CHIN TAI BANK only the 1 cent stamp have been in my listing. Thanks for this 5 cent version.
Beside of this encased postages also 'chits' with postage stamps clued or simple fixed to printed or hand-written notes are known. All pieces are looked for. ! Not only in China !

Kliao

Try the stamps forum?

WorldCoinsDmitry

@Urmelade said:
Actually 11 different companies with encased postages from Shanghai and one from Hankow are known.
For the CHIN TAI BANK only the 1 cent stamp have been in my listing. Thanks for this 5 cent version.
Beside of this encased postages also 'chits' with postage stamps clued or simple fixed to printed or hand-written notes are known. All pieces are looked for. ! Not only in China !

Thanks, great information

WorldCoinsDmitry

@Kliao said:
Try the stamps forum?

I've already identified the stamp, it's common. We don't have an exonumia sub-section here, so I felt the world coins section was most appropriate.

Urmelade

The most common (common means you can find a piece every ten years) is the encased postage from the brewery EWO.
The picture is taken from the book 'CHIPS AND COUPONS IN OLD SHANGHAI' (Editor: Pan Junxiang. Publisher: Shanghai Academy of Social Science) from 2005. Written in Chinese, but a really great book also just as a picture book. It must have been a phantastic and surreal international town during that time.

Did I already told that I am searching this sort of emergency money?

Insider2

@291fifth said:

@Insider2 said:
Perhaps it is "emergency money" issued by the Chinese Nationalists. The communists would have wiped out all records of the existence of these. Where did you get it and is the stamp actually "encased" (covered by something to protect it?

"The communists would have wiped out all records of the existence of these". What is your source for this statement? Is this fact or just "if it is online it must be true" history?

LOL, my source is a "the moon is made of blue cheese experienced GUESS" thank me very much.

BTW, It looks like my guess was at least half correct: "Perhaps it is "emergency money" issued by the Chinese Nationalists.