some pockets of market strength

lusterlover

With all the recent chat about market weakness, I'm just noticing that the PCGS 1857 flying eagle cents did very well in the last HA auction and sold for well above guide. Two 63s sold for $1,500 & $1,800 ($900 guide); two 64s sold for $1,740 and $1,620 ($1,500 guide); and a 65 went for $4,560 ($3,150 guide). I'm sure there's other areas if people want to chime in but it's nice to see some strength in non-5 or 6 figure coins. Maybe there's hope for us widget collectors...

Smudge

Perhaps the old saying buy the coin not the holder is finally beginning to sink in. Good looking coins seem to be doing well.

ricko

All the commentary about a weak market is not reflected in the prices (IMO). Perhaps selling is slow....I have no idea about that.... I do maintain that if the market is indeed slow, than reduce prices.... But no... that would be too drastic. Just joking people.... and perhaps pushing it from a buyers perspective a bit.... Cheers, RickO

jmlanzaf

@ricko said:
All the commentary about a weak market is not reflected in the prices (IMO). Perhaps selling is slow....I have no idea about that.... I do maintain that if the market is indeed slow, than reduce prices.... But no... that would be too drastic. Just joking people.... and perhaps pushing it from a buyers perspective a bit.... Cheers, RickO

There are plenty of prices that have dropped. MS65 Morgans, for example. Virtually all Classic Commemoratives.

ricko

@jmlanzaf....True... Just not in coin venues that I am currently interested in, limited as that is. My commentary also reflects the general attitude that I have seen since this forum began.... with one small period of exception, it seems that the general commentary has indicated a poor market. Reminds me of midwest farmers....never a good year But farmers keep farming and coin sellers keep selling.... Cheers, RickO

BryceM

Nice coins are still fine. Widgety stuff is suffering. Exceptions abound.

Jimnight

At this point in time I'm not concerned with the market strength.

Pnies20

I know! I was trying to bid on one

If anyone has a FE from 50-63 for sale let me know

topstuf

@BryceM said:
Nice coins are still fine. Widgety stuff is suffering. Exceptions abound.

Apparently from reading the forum, PMD is going strong. Maybe stronger than ever.
I'm thinking of a new grading service. PMDGS.

A buck and a half gets you a brand new manila envelope to keep the treasures in.

We may get backlogged.

jmlanzaf

@topstuf said:

@BryceM said:
Nice coins are still fine. Widgety stuff is suffering. Exceptions abound.

Apparently from reading the forum, PMD is going strong. Maybe stronger than ever.
I'm thinking of a new grading service. PMDGS.

A buck and a half gets you a brand new manila envelope to keep the treasures in.

We may get backlogged.

For an extra 25 cents, I can provide a stickering service "CPMD" to verify that it is indeed PMD.

topstuf

@jmlanzaf said:

@topstuf said:

@BryceM said:
Nice coins are still fine. Widgety stuff is suffering. Exceptions abound.

Apparently from reading the forum, PMD is going strong. Maybe stronger than ever.
I'm thinking of a new grading service. PMDGS.

A buck and a half gets you a brand new manila envelope to keep the treasures in.

We may get backlogged.

For an extra 25 cents, I can provide a stickering service "CPMD" to verify that it is indeed PMD.

How much extra to get a REALLY BIG blurry TrueView?

jmlanzaf

@topstuf said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@topstuf said:

@BryceM said:
Nice coins are still fine. Widgety stuff is suffering. Exceptions abound.

Apparently from reading the forum, PMD is going strong. Maybe stronger than ever.
I'm thinking of a new grading service. PMDGS.

A buck and a half gets you a brand new manila envelope to keep the treasures in.

We may get backlogged.

For an extra 25 cents, I can provide a stickering service "CPMD" to verify that it is indeed PMD.

How much extra to get a REALLY BIG blurry TrueView?

$5 - are you trying to make me actually work?

topstuf

$3.25 for a pencil rubbing? Maybe? Economy sub.

jmlanzaf

@topstuf said:
$3.25 for a pencil rubbing? Maybe? Economy sub.

For $2 I'll do "conservation" - that means rubbing the coin with a metal file.

topstuf

@jmlanzaf said:

@topstuf said:
$3.25 for a pencil rubbing? Maybe? Economy sub.

For $2 I'll do "conservation" - that means rubbing the coin with a metal file.

Less for acid dip?

jmlanzaf

@topstuf said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@topstuf said:
$3.25 for a pencil rubbing? Maybe? Economy sub.

For $2 I'll do "conservation" - that means rubbing the coin with a metal file.

Less for acid dip?

You can't use acid on certified PMD coins - it might remove the damage!

But we could use acid to "bring out the "on any actual error coins accidentally submitted.

BryceM

Perhaps, to clarify, my definition of "nice coins" is probably different than most. To me, a 38-D buffalo in MS67 with nice color is a nice coin and one that I would expect to do well in the market. A boring white 38-D in MS67 is the very definition of a widget. A really well struck 1921 Peace dollar in MS64 will always be attractive. A plain white MS65 1921 dollar with the usual soft strike is a widget. None of the above are 5 or 6 figure coins. A 1907 high-relief Saint in MS63 is a five figure coin and is a huge widget.

I guess the point is, weak-for-grade coins are pulling down the market for strong-for-grade coins. Possibly this has been said before. The strong coins are just fine, at many price points and in many series.

jmlanzaf

@BryceM said:

I guess the point is, weak-for-grade coins are pulling down the market for strong-for-grade coins. Possibly this has been said before. The strong coins are just fine, at many price points and in many series.

This has been said by John Albanese. It was the reason CAC was formed.

But I think you have to be careful about comparing apples to oranges. Yes, golden 1938-D Buffalos in 67 are pretty common and the price is correspondingly stagnant to slightly dropping. But when a rainbow 38-D Buff goes for more than the guide, that DOESN'T mean that the market for rainbow 38-D Buffs is going up. I don't know the answer to this, but what did a rainbow 38-D Buff sell for 2 or 3 years ago compared to today? That is the only comparison that matters.

In the OPs original example, it doesn't indicate (necessarily) that there is "market strength" among Flying Eagle cents if comparing exceptional examples to the Price Guide which is for average examples. This is particular true for slabbed coins where the guide might well reflect sight unseen prices.

jmlanzaf

@lusterlover said:
With all the recent chat about market weakness, I'm just noticing that the PCGS 1857 flying eagle cents did very well in the last HA auction and sold for well above guide. Two 63s sold for $1,500 & $1,800 ($900 guide); two 64s sold for $1,740 and $1,620 ($1,500 guide); and a 65 went for $4,560 ($3,150 guide). I'm sure there's other areas if people want to chime in but it's nice to see some strength in non-5 or 6 figure coins. Maybe there's hope for us widget collectors...

I said this above, but I'll say it directly to you: that price comparison is potentially meaningless. The price for an exceptional coin (if that's what those were) can't be compared to price guides which are for average coins. To wit:

Here's a 63 flying eagle that sold by Heritage yesterday for $720 (BP included)

https://coins.ha.com/itm/flying-eagle-cents/small-cents/1857-1c-ms63-pcgs-pcgs-population-951-1460-ngc-census-569-1149-ms63-mintage-17-450-000-pcgs-2016-/a/132005-29022.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

If I compare that to your coins which I imagine were in the Long Beach auction where premium material goes, I could conclude that the market for 63 Flying Eagles has dropped in half in 2 weeks!!!! But, I'd be comparing apples to pomegranates.

I'ad also note that the $1500 and $1800 coins were CAC coins.

amwldcoin

I am crossing my fingers and knocking on wood as I write this.

I'm hoping ebay has fixed my issues and also the market is improving. My sales the past 30 days are up around 400% compared to the same time last year! They are comparable to what my sales used to be before ebay made all their changes a few years ago.

BryceM

@jmlanzaf said:

@BryceM said:

I guess the point is, weak-for-grade coins are pulling down the market for strong-for-grade coins. Possibly this has been said before. The strong coins are just fine, at many price points and in many series.

This has been said by John Albanese. It was the reason CAC was formed.

But I think you have to be careful about comparing apples to oranges. Yes, golden 1938-D Buffalos in 67 are pretty common and the price is correspondingly stagnant to slightly dropping. But when a rainbow 38-D Buff goes for more than the guide, that DOESN'T mean that the market for rainbow 38-D Buffs is going up. I don't know the answer to this, but what did a rainbow 38-D Buff sell for 2 or 3 years ago compared to today? That is the only comparison that matters.

In the OPs original example, it doesn't indicate (necessarily) that there is "market strength" among Flying Eagle cents if comparing exceptional examples to the Price Guide which is for average examples. This is particular true for slabbed coins where the guide might well reflect sight unseen prices.

These are good points, and we humans are far to easily swayed by a couple of anecdotal sales. My experience as a collector is limited to, well, my experience as a collector. From my own experience selling coins (which I do reasonably frequently), it seems that coins that can be replaced within 20 minutes of looking at a big show are hard to get rid of. They are also hard to make any money on. Coins that have a special attribute, whether it be gorgeous luster, uncommonly good strike, particularly nice toning, or just all-round exceptional coins (for their grade) are much easier to sell, and are the ones I've often made a profit on at sale time. The stuff I'm trying to buy is this stuff, and it ain't going cheaply anywhere.

Again, I must stress that this has little to do with actual rarity, grade, or value. There are really cool common-date AU58 1922 Peace dollars...... and everything else.

Justacommeman

CAC gold is golden

m