FUN SHOW WAS GREAT ! BUT.....
Verno
Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
The FUN SHOW WAS GREAT! I was there Friday and Saturday and found it to be a super productive show, sold most that I brought, controlled my impulses to buy, made some great new contacts for selling and was totally blown away by the number of great coins.
That said,in the back round we have a number of super trans formative events going on....ebay collecting sales tax on behalf of sellers that have no business collecting it, CDN/Greysheet pricing( which seems to be super divisive) & the addition of CAC pricing, and the whole auction model eating the regular dealers lunch...i.e how coins reentering the market are bypassing the dealers first....plus the new embedded chip technologies touted on the floor....will they be able to affix to my rattlers?
Any thoughts on these topics? The Greysheet pricing seemed to elicit the most impassioned discussion with the dealers I talked to along with the super tight grading..... My FUN SHOW report to follow later in the week.
Best regards, RJ/VERNO
Comments
Ebay only collects sales tax mandated by individual state law. The seller is irrelevant. Nexus is determined by the buyer. Please get this right.
.> @jmlanzaf said:
Please site you source, it is my understanding that sales tax collection for entities with no physical presence in a jurisdiction is based on volume done in the state. ...I am sure we are working towards everyone have to collect sales tax on interstate trade and I do no doubt that the tax may be owed buy the buyer in his state, what I am referring to is the my obligation to collect it for the state when I do not have a presence in that state nor is the coin being physically handled by a 3rd party fulfillment company like amazon....see below
the following quote is from Intuit Tax Review updated for 2019 Tax Year
**_When you are obligated to collect sales tax online
The basic rule for collecting sales tax from online sales is:
If your business has a physical presence, or “nexus”, in a state, you must collect applicable sales taxes from online customers in that state.
If you do not have a physical presence, you generally do not have to collect sales tax for online sales. However, in June of 2018, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a ruling that will likely change this exemption to collecting sales tax. States are expected to begin collecting sales taxes regardless of having a physical presence in the state.
A physical presence means that you have some business facility in that state. It could be any type of business operation, such as:
A storefront
An office
A warehouse_**
On a different matter, should auction results include the total cost of the purchase including sales tax collected and the shipping/handling cost?
Regards,
RJ/VERNO
This entire sales tax issue is becoming a real snake pit....I foresee much more to come. Speaking of foresight... stay tuned for the next thrilling installment of the @Verno show report....
Cheers, RickO
Someone call the Carpathia...i think they are nearby.
Sales tax on coins will prove to be a big problem in the future. It effectively widens the buy-sell margin. Collectors do not like to buy coins with wide buy-sell margins. (A large percentage of collectors like to think of their coin collections as "investments" even though this is usually just wishful thinking.)
There are numerous threads on this. I mean, use your head: it would be illegal for eBay to collect sales tax not owed.
If you'd like the details:
If you have your own website, you may not owe sales tax in any state other than your state of residence. HOWEVER, eBay and Amazon and similar operations are considered "marketplaces". After the Supreme Court's Wayfair ruling, states were allowed to institute internet sales taxes - and they did.
Here's some links:
https://taxfoundation.org/state-remote-sales-tax-collection-wayfair/
https://salestaxdatalink.com/blog/how-post-wayfair-sales-tax-laws-affect-ebay/
https://salestaxinstitute.com/resources/remote-seller-nexus-chart
https://avalara.com/us/en/blog/2019/04/marketplaces-to-collect-sales-tax-on-behalf-of-their-sellers-in-11-more-states-and-counting.html
Again, Intuit is referring to you as an individual seller. The sales tax is levied on the marketplace (eBay) not the individual seller. That's why eBay sellers are NOT collecting sales tax and NOT remitting sales tax. eBay collects and remits the tax.
Google "Wayfair ruling internet sales tax" or something similar and you will get 1000 links explaining it.
I agree with you. 31 months to go...no matter what that error clown thinks.
And yet they have been collecting sales tax incorrectly from Utah and Michigan since October 2019 plus Illinois since Jan 1, 2020. Multiple calls explaining that coins are exempt only elicit vague responses of them “working on it” or something of that matter. 3+ months seems like a bit too long to still be working on it and continuing to incorrectly collect tax on exempt items.
There have been implementation issues in each new state. That does not have anything to do, however, with what the OP is saying.
The Greysheet pricing seemed to elicit the most impassioned discussion with the dealers I talked to
I didn't hear that much about it, and my subscription lapsed years ago....I wished more dealers priced the stuff I'm interested in using 'the sheet'.
The only thing that comes to mind was Wayne Herndon pointing out that XF Barber halves had all dropped in value on the current sheet, and that coins priced in Fine had all gone up, and he found that puzzling.
Please share what you were hearing though.
Always trusted the GS to accurately reflect the liquid Morgan Dollar market. They seemed to be reluctant to adjust prices downward as prices slid three years ago so I put the paper aside.
It has plenty to do with it as tax is a big factor, but incorrectly applied tax is even worse.
Plus your statement (quoted below) was wrong and it’s worth pointing out that eBay isn’t correcting the issue, even after 3+ months (which is plenty of time to fix a few categories that are clearly exempt). The lack of this simple fix (changing the coin category to not collecting tax in those exempt states), is further eroding the coin market as plenty of people from those states reduce their purchases.
“ Ebay only collects sales tax mandated by individual state law.”
As of a month ago they were still collecting for RI where coins are also exempt. 4 months ago when calling to inform them there shouldn't be any the response was 'you'll get it back' - when asked who was going to give it back there was stammering and a mumbled we're working on that. It will be interesting to see what the states do with all the new found $$$, while many big companies were collecting previously still should be quite a windfall for them
Again, you are not reading what the OP wrote. He wrote that ebay is applying sales tax to SELLERS who are not required to collect tax. This is blatantly false because the eBay sales tax applies to eBay and the buyer's nexus and has nothing to do with sellers.
Secondly, what I wrote is ostensibly true. eBay collects sales tax based on state laws mandating they collect it. Yes, they may be having implementation issues. They are sometimes slow to fix it, but they do eventually get it right. They HAVE TO...by law. eBay is not a taxing entity.
“Ostensibly true” is not the same as true. Your original post didn’t make any clarification between the two as you just made a general statement that eBay wouldn’t collect tax that they aren’t authorized to collect. They can have all the “good intentions” they want, but if the law is misapplied, that is a big problem. What’s happening in practice (sales tax is incorrectly collected) is much more serious than what should happen in theory (sales tax only collected for items that should be taxed according to the law). And it’s not being fixed, as quite a few posters from different states have stated. If 3+ months isn’t enough to “eventually fix” an issue that is hurting sales and unlawful, then there isn’t much hope for good decisions in general.
We don't really know what is going on. Maybe they are discussing it with the states. That'd slow things down.
They have fixed the problems in the earlier states. They will fix these.
I send all the coins I've upgraded to an auction company.
It's less work and less insulting.
If I can break even, I'm happy.
My Saint Set
It is you that is confusing the issue, the Intuit article went on to explain that unlike Wayair or Amazon, that offer product fulfillment and ship ordered goods from company owned warehouses and in the case of Amazon, actually handle the final mile delivery, ebay never physically handled my coin nor delivered it. I, as the seller, and owner of the coin, should not have a third party collect sales tax on the purchase, just as "Coin World" would not collect sales tax on a sale generated by a print add delivered by the US mail. The collection of the sales tax from my buyer influences "how much" he will pay me for the coin...and I assur eyou , that amount is never higher..common sense....
RJ/VERNO
Again, food for thought ...everyone is quoting "first cost" hammer prices when trying to buy coins from me face to face at a show...
Please research the marketplace laws. They were specifically written to apply to places like Amazon and eBay. This isn't even arguable. The states rewrote their tax codes for exactly that reason.
Or spend $1000 and talk to a tax professional who will tell you exactly what I am telling you and the internet is telling you.
Read this about "marketplace facilitators":
https://www2.illinois.gov/rev/research/legalinformation/EmergencyRules/MarketplaceFacilitator/Pages/default.aspx
And just THINK. eBay fought the internet sales tax for years because it gave them a competitive advantage. Why would they give it up and imperil their business model if they weren't forced to?
Since you love Intuit, try this article:
https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/self-employment-taxes/sales-tax-101-for-online-sellers/L4uTQCaIx
From the article (emphasis mine):
When you are obligated to collect sales tax online
The basic rule for collecting sales tax from online sales is:
If your business has a physical presence, or “nexus”, in a state, you must collect applicable sales taxes from online customers in that state.
If you do not have a physical presence, you generally do not have to collect sales tax for online sales. However, in June of 2018, the U.S. Supreme Court issued a ruling that will likely change this exemption to collecting sales tax. States are expected to begin collecting sales taxes regardless of having a physical presence in the state.
Do you have to pay sales tax at a B&M?
Yes. The B&M rules are the same as the internet rules. If your state has not exempted coins/bullion from tax, then B&M or eBay doesn't matter.
I used to buy a periodic greysheet before this $35/issue greed set in. Now I just mostly use FREE recent auction results.
As for tax, praise the lord still no sales tax on coins or bullion in the Commonwealth. I guess someone else must be paying for it.
cacs, the whole thing is a train wreck imo, people wanting lower grades with a sticker vs higher grade without a sticker. The beginning of the end for the TPG market.
Praise any new slab security because the flood of fakes is massive and continues to increase.
Bypass the middleman, all for it better deals for collectors both as buyer and seller.
eBay, still the greatest coin shop on this planet. Semper Fi!!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Yes. The B&M rules are the same as the internet rules. If your state has not exempted coins/bullion from tax, then B&M or eBay doesn't matter.
>
When I got into coins in 2002, I kept hearing that in 100 years the number on the slab won\t matter.
17 years in, we are certainly headed in that direction.