1889 Morgan Dollar - Any Chance of MS-66??

davids5104

Bought it for a reasonable price for MS-65. The coin looks to me as a stretch candidate for 66. i took a chance, because I can not afford this coin straight up in MS-66. I

291fifth

The photos are far too overexposed to make any grading call.

davids5104

@291fifth said:
The photos are far too overexposed to make any grading call.

I turned down the light myself to get a better picture, when I went to buy it.

Kyle

65 seems right.

CoinJunkie

I voted "leave it". The surfaces look a bit rough, although that may be due to the lighting, at least in part.

Collect4fun

It has a reasonable strike

coinbuf

That cheek is not 66 quality imo

blitzdude

Nice white 65 congrats!

Commencents

Possible 65+. Darker photos would help make a better assessment.

davids5104

@coinbuf said:
That cheek is not 66 quality imo

I have seen some dog ugly cheeks on 66's. I also have concerns regarding the luster with the exposure so high. I hope once the coun is in hand will put that to bed

CCGGG

Based on the pictures it looks reasonable for a 65... It's not a 66, IMO...

Kyle

I adjusted the levels a little bit. The highlights are still a little blown out on the obverse, but it's easier to get a sense of the overall look of the coin.

ricko

I would say a solid 65.... could go +.....Cheers, RickO

johnny9434

no 66. jmo

JimTyler

Nothing special

DelawareDoons

I could see a plus. Very tough date in 66 and that gate will be kept tight, I would bet. I have a nice 1889 as well, in 65, in a rattler holder. I have debated cracking it out but always stop short.

tommy44

I'd leave it as is and be thankful. It could have come out a 64 if the graders were having a bad day. Nothing personal, just what I see looking at your photos.

messydesk

I see a 65.

lkenefic

I think the hit on the jawline... prime focal area... would prevent a 66. IMHO...

Coinstartled

@davids5104 said:

@coinbuf said:
That cheek is not 66 quality imo

I have seen some dog ugly cheeks on 66's.

But not many. That hit above the neck is probably a 66 disqualifier. looks pretty good for a 65 though.

marcmoish

@davids5104 said:

@coinbuf said:
That cheek is not 66 quality imo

I have seen some dog ugly cheeks on 66's. I also have concerns regarding the luster with the exposure so high. I hope once the coun is in hand will put that to bed

you prob meant butt ugly right?

I reckon we have many dog lovers here ye know.

Personally I'm a 65 here.

Insider2

No chance. Don't think that has a CAC sticker either...hint, hint.

asheland

I'd leave it be as a 65. Nice coin though..

davids5104

@Coinstartled said:

@davids5104 said:

@coinbuf said:
That cheek is not 66 quality imo

I have seen some dog ugly cheeks on 66's.

But not many. That hit above the neck is probably a 66 disqualifier. looks pretty good for a 65 though.

This coin is in MS-66 PCGS with CAC.... currently for sale. I think the contrast on mine may be hiding something, I will wait and see, but the cheek is within the realms of 66 based on what I can see in the photos

Insider2

I tell my students to buy the coin and not the label BECAUSE there are examples of over-graded, correctly-graded, and under-graded coins in every TPGS slab. Eventually, the under-graded coins are cracked and graded correctly.

The ANA Grading GUIDE has a helpful chart for beginners. I have found that a beginner can get into the "ballpark" very quickly by using it. Get a copy and try it out for yourself.
For CONTACT MARKS the chart says this:

MS-65: Light and scattered without major distracting marks in prime focal areas.

MS-66: Several small: a few may be in the prime focal areas.

NOTE that the ANA book is a guide that may not have any relationship to the actual grading being done by the major TPGS's or the commercial market. So, in this case a grader needs to establish in their own mind what light, scattered, and several is. While "light & scattered" is something 95% of us should be able to quickly visualise, "several" is a word that might be different to many of us.

When I teach, I get students to associate "words" with numbers. It tends to make grading a lot easier. If I told you a coin had NO CONTACT MARKS, you could visualize it. It would be a round EMPTY circle on the blackboard. As soon as I put 1 or two (I teach one only) marks in the circle in is a 69. Everyone is different but in general there is an easy progression from none, virtually none, hardly any, very few, few, some, many, very many, to excessive.

Folks who learn to set their own standards for contact marks into words including: light, heavy, tiny, miniscule, very
small, small, etc will find grading MS coins much easier.

Example: What would a coin with many, light contact marks look like in your imagination?

davids5104

@Insider2 said:
I tell my students to buy the coin and not the label BECAUSE there are examples of over-graded, correctly-graded, and under-graded coins in every TPGS slab. Eventually the under-graded coins are cracked and graded correctly.

I just was hoping I could have one of the under-graded coins!!! my hopes are dashed....hehe

Insider2

Your coin is professionally graded as an MS-65! So far, all of us like it.

Collect4fun

@Insider2 said:
I tell my students to buy the coin and not the label BECAUSE there are examples of over-graded, correctly-graded, and under-graded coins in every TPGS slab. Eventually, the under-graded coins are cracked and graded correctly.

The ANA Grading GUIDE has a helpful chart for beginners. I have found that a beginner can get into the "ballpark" very quickly by using it. Get a copy and try it out for yourself.
For CONTACT MARKS the chart says this:

MS-65: Light and scattered without major distracting marks in prime focal areas.

MS-66: Several small: a few may be in the prime focal areas.

NOTE that the ANA book is a guide that may not have any relationship to the actual grading being done by the major TPGS's or the commercial market. So, in this case a grader needs to establish in their own mind what light, scattered, and several is. While "light & scattered" is something 95% of us should be able to quickly visualise, "several" is a word that might be different to many of us.

When I teach, I get students to associate "words" with numbers. It tends to make grading a lot easier. If I told you a coin had NO CONTACT MARKS, you could visualize it. It would be a round EMPTY circle on the blackboard. As soon as I put 1 or two (I teach one only) marks in the circle in is a 69. Everyone is different but in general there is an easy progression from none, virtually none, hardly any, very few, few, some, many, very many, to excessive.

Folks who learn to set their own standards for contact marks into words including: light, heavy, tiny, miniscule, very
small, small, etc will find grading MS coins much easier.

Example: What would a coin with many, light contact marks look like in your imagination

Can you discuss depth of cut? I’ve heard this occasionally and wondered what it entails in terms of evaluating and how much it deducts from the grade. Thanks

Insider2

@Collect4fun said: "Can you discuss depth of cut? I’ve heard this occasionally and wondered what it entails in terms of evaluating and how much it deducts from the grade."

I'm not ducking your question. Since at this point in time there is no standard definition for the descriptive words collectors use for the number or depth of a mark. The same is true for spots. So the simple answer is:

It is all personal (subjective).

That said, the closer in agreement with the opinion of the top graders, the better. What you'll need to do to develop your own set of standards is to examine coins already graded. Until then, use your imagination. If I show you a flat mark-free surface to start, think about how you would describe a mark using adjectives such as light, long, and deep. There is no absolutely incorrect answer as much depends on experience and the size of the surface. A long mark on a $1 gold coin is a short mark on a $20.

Here are some images:

This is a shallow lint mark. If it were a scratch, it would be "tiny."

These are "fairly deep" impressions from a tool to hide a scratch. Relative to the level of the original surface, they could be a little deeper and then be called "multiple gouges." The curved mark under the lower lip is "deep."

Now take out your pocket change and try to describe the marks you see on your coins in your own words.