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NFL HOF time - why not Charley Conerly?
nebish
Posts: 45 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Not sure when the last time he was even considered (not this year). Seems like the best QB of that era not in the HOF. Reasons? Chances the senior committee does something about it at some point...after all these years?
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Are you kidding?
2 pro bowls
Looks like a good QB. In the top 5 for about 5 years and between 5-10 for about 5.
Low completion % even for his time. Not many yards.
He might be the best of the rest, but not HOF as far as I can see.
Better guys during his time;
Y.A. Tittle
Norm Van Brocklin
Otto Graham
Bobby Layne
Johnny Unitas (came in a bit later)
Make a case for Charlie if you can.
I think he is the best of the rest.
He was a 7x finalist for the HOF throughout the 70s then he dropped off the ballot and had never reappeared (1971, 72, 74, 75, 76, 78, 80).
He wasn't the flashy or big stat QB and most of his seasons NY didn't have the offense that the greats of that era enjoyed and played in.
Conerly did lead the Giants to NFL Title game 3 out of 4 years; beating the Bears for the Title in '56 and losing to the Colts in back-to-back years '58 and '59 (Conerly was actually voted MVP of the '58 OT game by the press before the game was over, but with the Colts comeback and OT victory they revoted and Unitas as the MVP).
His best statistical years were early in his career. Charlie was 27 years old his rookie season of '48 when he finished 2nd to Baugh in yards as the only other QB to pass for over 2000 yards (#2 in many key passing categories that year). His 22 TD passes that year were a rookie record that would stand for 50 years. His total TD count for '48 was 27.
In '49 he was just 1 of 3 QBs to pass for over 2000 yards joining Lujack and Waterfield. He was #3 in many key categories.
Unfortunately for the Giants, Conerly's personal success, even overcoming a poor OL unit, did not translate to wins with a combined 10-14 record in those first two years.
However starting in 1950 the Giants would finish runner-up in the East division 3 straight years amassing as combined 26-9-1 record. For his part statistically, Conerly posted modest numbers.
The middle of Conerly's career, 1953-55 was certainly not one a HOF resume is made of. He even retired briefly after 1953 between the coaching transition of Owen to Howell, citing he didn't want to "get hurt any more". Howell convinced him to come back and new OC Vince Lombardi's offense breathed life into the 32 year old QB. Lombardi guided the offense, but as was norm for the era, the QB called the plays in the huddle. Frank Gifford specifically credits Conerly's leadership in the huddle. Lombardi was quoted as saying he never coached a player that had more courage that Conerly.
The four year run between 1956-59 was a good run for both Charlie and the team. Gifford credits Charlie for much of the Giants success during those years even though he did not have the statistics others of the era did. Pat Summerall even credits Conerly's FG holding for his improvement as a kicker.
Lombardi moved to Green Bay after the '58 season and in comes Sherman with a more pass friendly offense. Conerly flourished. At 38 Conerly was NFL MVP in 1959
He was named Sporting News 1st Team '56, '57 and '59.
Injuries hindered the 1960 season and Tittle came in 1961. Serving as backup, Conerly came off the bench to lead a struggling Giants team to victories over the Rams and Eagles. Conerly threw for 3 TDs vs the Eagles in a must-win game for the division. Head coach Allie Sherman recalled going to Charlie four times that year and Charlie brought the team "home" each time.
When Gifford was inducted into the hall he said "he was embarrassed to be there when Charlie wasn't".
He wasn't as flashy as his counterparts and might fit the role of the game manager. The Giants had some good years in the 1950s and they certainly weren't entirely because of Conerly, but I doubt they could've done it without him.
In summarizing your post, he started out very well for a couple of years on bad teams, then from 1950-55 you say;
"1950 the Giants would finish runner-up in the East division 3 straight years amassing as combined 26-9-1 record. For his part statistically, Conerly posted modest numbers". "The middle of Conerly's career, 1953-55 was certainly not one a HOF resume is made of".
His second year was not that great with 20 INT and a low QBRATE.
In 1955, 56 and 58 he wasn't even the Giants starting QB, it was Don Heinrich.
He had a very good 1957. HOF worthy? Debatable.
1958 they split the starting job. Charlie was good in bringing the team back that year with three 4th quarter comebacks and five game winning drives.
He played for 14 seasons and 8-9 (?) of those years he was average, below average, and/or not even the starter. You give him 6 (?) great years, the rest certainly not HOF quality. I'll give him 3 great years a couple of good/very good years and the rest, not impressive.
He was good at throwing TDs, although he never led the league. 2nd a couple of times 3rd once and 4th four times.
His best year statistically was 1959 but he didn't pass very often (#8 in attempts, #7 in yards). He looks to be about the #3 QB that year.
He was 1-2 in Championship games. It does look like he was great in the playoffs/Champoinship of 1956 & 1958. Great regular year in 59 but bad Championship game. Pretty much done after that.
He was never the clear cut "best" QB of his time. Looks to me to be at best #3 for 2-3 years and #7 or 8 for 6-8 years.
I'm not "knocking" your guy, had he been the consistent every day QB for the Giants from day one, who knows? He certainly had enough talent.
If he didn't get in already, I don't see it happening, but Harold Baines made the MLB HOF so anything's possible!
I appreciate your thoughts and taking the time for that.
I'm not a Giants fan, and not necessarily a Conerly fan per se - but it did seem to me that history may've overlooked a key member of the 1950s. As time has moved on, he has faded from the memories of most.
Actually, I learned quite a bit about the man and the player in my research last night and further from your post now which I am happy to know. Having never seen him play ( I was born in 1975), it all seems like legend and myth and abstract trying to look back upon it now.
One thing I read last night about him not starting, that is correct, but he was the team's QB1. He would come into the game in the second series and play the rest of the game. Supposedly neither Heinrich nor Conerly liked this arrangement, understandably so. Coaches wanted Conerly to observe on the sideline to get a feel before going into the game. Conerly was later quoted to the effect of "you can't see a damn thing from the sideline...I don't know why they did that".
Always interesting to learn about the old timers!
What’s interesting is they voted Bob Waterfield in over Conerly. Conerly had better stats, I think it’s because the Rams were more successful than the Giants. Check out the stat comparisons
I would not put Waterfield in.
I don't often think about the borderline players that made it in the HOF.
Something that must've helped Waterfield was he played defense his first 4 seasons, so in addition to being one of the leagues better QBs he was also an impact player at DB (20 INTs combined those first 4 years at DB). On top of the QB and early career DB duties, he was also regular P and K, not tremendous accuracy although 60 of 110 FG for his career was pretty norm for the era I guess (Groza was a 55%). All that with 3 straight Championship game appearances and leading the league twice in passing makes it hard to ignore. Pretty versatile guy.
Not only all that, he was the Marlboro Man!
NFL HOF Set
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/398345
Of course marrying Jane Russell cemented his HOF status
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
no cartoon characters in the HOF , its a rule look it up . Otherwise twinkletoes flintstone is a lock
He was not good enough. I remember him when I was a young fan. There were guys like Johnny Unitas, John Brodie, Don Merridith and Bart Starr who led their teams to championships and/or put up great numbers. Conerly put up okay numbers but never led the Giants to the promised land. Then he got replaced by Y.A. Tiddle.
The main thing I remember about Charlie Conerly is that he was an active NFL player who had grey hair.
Nice Minnesota girl!