Advice request: Variety enthusiast’s large hoard to be sold...
Aspie_Rocco
Posts: 3,259 ✭✭✭✭✭
My friend who passed in November left a massive hoard of Variety coins behind. To coin a phrase I will call it the Bright Ray Hoard.
Boxes of rolls of proof ddr and DDO nickels, dimes, miscellaneous RPM nickels, miscellaneous “modern” varieties, cases of unopened proof sets and mint products, and some junk coins and junk silver.
The obvious items like junk are straight forward, sell as silver or roll and to off to the bank. The more pressing request for advice is for the tens of thousands of minor and major varieties (mostly nickels but not exclusively).
There is also an overwhelming amount of proof coins in mint packages and older toned coins.
The contacts for disposing the hoard arraigned by the departed have been lost and so I am making a long distance effort to advise the family on disposal of the vast collection.
I was able to personal view a small sample (over 4,000 nickels and several dimes rolls) of the plastic tubes filled with ddr proof Jefferson nickels, a scattering of 2004/2005 proof sets, pcgs and NGC Slabs, and other assorted items. Lots of dimes also.
I don’t know where to start with making offers on the small amount I am interested in of raw material.
Ideally I would love to acquire all of the rolls (several hundred rolls in all) but I don’t reasonably believe I could afford even a 10th of the hoard.
What to do?
Where to start?
Who to ask if a dealer would make a large scale offer on such a variety hoard, if anyone?
Hoard located in the North Carolina area.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
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Comments
Decline involvement. You are just asking for a BIG headache.
Minor varieties will be a tough tough sell.
If not already imaged, just think about how much work that would entail.
What we variety enthusiasts can easily forget is that even though we love them and pursue them, the minor or perhaps not popular stuff ( say, not listed in the CPG) can be more trouble to handle than it is worth.
Something to consider- many (most?) variety enthusiasts want to cherrypick the coins, not pay retail.
That is sad. Sounds like his life's work. How could the contacts be lost? Man, I would think twice before cataloging thousands of coins for the family. It might be more beneficial to just refer the heirs to John Wexler, Ken Potter (if he's still active), or just have them separate the major stuff and sell the minor varieties in "mystery rolls" at X times face.
Good luck
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
It will be difficult to move hundreds of relatively low valued coins. For the nickels, if they are mostly 60's and later would they be worth more than 5-10 times face?
I have to echo what others have written. From the opening post, it appears that there are an enormous number of low value, minor variety coins that have a whisper thin market and while they might be fun to find in the wild, they also might be near impossible to sell. The family is in a tough spot, but unless you intend to become the collection, the best I can tell you to do is remove yourself from the situation.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Sounds like a really, really tough position. Staying out of the affair is probably the safest course of action.
If you feel an obligation to help out the family, refer them to a major retailer. You're the expert in this area and if you don't know who will pay a premium price for this stuff then it's probably safe to say no one will. L&C is selling rolls of proof nickels for $30-60 each so they must buy this kind of material. The proof sets and junk silver too.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
@Aspie_Rocco ....... whatever you may decide Best of the Best
Your intention is regally very thoughtful 
Massive hoard of minutiae = no large scale offer from dealer.
I agree with what's been said. This question came up on another thread recently. The answer stays the same: there is no reliable way to value minor varieties since the market is incredibly thin.
My opinion, what is everyone thinking? Esp. the cherry picker's in the bunch? Sure, there probably is a majority of the hoard minor Varieties. but saying that, if one's pocket is deep and their time is as well. This is a Cherry picker's dream! Man! After, I would finish sorting, I'm sure I would find somewhere to sell or even give away as gifts to someone. Look on the positive side of all this.What could actually be in this mystery hoard? Who knows, there can be many worth while gems within your midst? Like I said, and If not, isn't it worth the shot? Imagine the joy and excitement checking!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.You are thinking about it as though you already own it.
This is an uncatalogued hoard of minor varieties without a price tag attached. So, if you go in and sort and catalogue and make an offer - it can simply be rejected.
Even worse, since this is a legacy hoard in an estate, your offer EVEN IF FAIR could be viewed as insulting and cost you a relationship with the family of the deceased or, at least, leave you feeling like a heel for angering a widow during her bereavement.
Anyone who has dealt with estates of any kind knows that there are risks. Those risks increase ten-fold when you are trying to value things that have no obvious value.
I recommend you refer them to a major dealer in their area and then back off. This is not a good situation to be involved in....going to be bad feelings when it is realized that it is not a 'windfall' of valuable coins...Cheers, RickO
“The more pressing request for advice is for the tens of thousands of minor and major varieties (mostly nickels but not exclusively)....”
Realistically, unless you can find a very enthusiastic collector with LOTS of free time available, I think it will be difficult to obtain much of a premium for such a collection. And it might take a great deal of time to locate such a buyer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The cherry-pickers on this board should all be contacting you with cash offers for the hoard. Have any done so?
Best quote of the thread so far.
I do not envy the position the OP finds himself in.
I once had to look at a sizable estate that was in expensive holders and housed in velvet lined trays. All of the coins were from West Germany, low denominations, dated between 1969 and 1980. My best guess was that the holders and trays cost five times (or more) what the coins cost. I begged off, telling the family member that she needed to find a German coin specialist. I knew the deceased collector, and figured that he sold his better stuff before he died.
May I suggest that you keep trying to locate the person who was supposed to take care of the deal after the collector was gone. Perhaps post the collector's name, with the family's permission. Otherwise you may find yourself trying to perform an impossible task.
Still undone work from my dad's estate, but with stamps. He had a keen eye for color shifts, perforation anomalies, water marks, etc. His specialty was English (1880 - 1930) stamps. Many of his were "discovery" items.
Shortly after he passed away, the 2 major dealers that dealt in that kind of stuff in England also passed away. Many of the stamps have cryptic notes that no one knows what they mean.
So, since I am this side of the pond, there is
1) Not a collector base in the US
2) Not an easy way to transport them back to England due to VAT exemptions when leaving England
3) A Razor thin collector base.
Hence, they languish, and will probably be my children's problem.
With high enough magnification and time, every coin every made will be a unique variety, but without a market, it is just face value.
Wow! IMHO that sort of thing lands right between a rock and a hard place. Not knowing all the circumstances, it seems all uphill from here. With no prearranged plans in hand, it falls on the heirs to figure out what to do. Often times the heirs have an inflated expectation of what things are really worth. Sorry to hear of the passing of your friend and the best of luck moving forward from here.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
I had drama trying to help a relative once with a single obvious fake coin. That was enough for me. From then that kind of stuff was SEP.
(Somebody else's problem.)
Good luck.
I hope whoever gets the task of selling also gets the deceased owners computer, passwords and photos.
bob
Not one, lol. I am a little surprised, since there is all denominations of coins from 1800s to present. If anyone has requests I can forward them. The guy already cleaned a small number of capped Bust coins for “better visibility”
I am sad so much will end up being sold as junk silver.
Hundreds of rolls of cents, dimes, nickels have already been dumped in coinstar
There are many major varieties too.
The family had another death so thing were in limbo for a while. The one in charge now has been sorting and selling some, I received a large box of slabbed and mostly attributed varieties this week, on pure consignment.
So far I looks like I will be helping with mostly nickels as I know very little about 1800s era varieties of halves, quarters, cents... I am slowly learning about buffalo varieties.
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Deal with one type at a time to make things easier to wrap your head around. It also makes it easier to ask for help if you can say you're looking for help with Buffalo nickel varieties, rather than keep people wondering if you're simply stuck with 150 rolls of "BIE" errors and XF 1960-D RPMs. There are people looking for varieties, but having no clue how major the varieties are that you speak of, I wouldn't know whether to say if they'd interest anyone. Problem coins and culls will be a headache to unload, variety or not.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I see you put some of them on the BST—good call. I’ll also check them out on eBay.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
As I said in my first reply to this post ... decline involvement. You are just asking for a BIG headache. Cherrypickers don't pay premiums ... they cherrypick.
All of the advice given has merit. The points above are what I might have suggested.
An important lesson here. Collecting niche material is fun and fulfilling for many but can create real headaches for heirs.
I live in fear (or at least worry) about what could happen to my life's work.
A dealer friend of mine and I have been dispersing a hoard of 18 rolls of BU Lincoln cent doubled dies and 2 circulated rolls of the same, consisting of some 1971 FS-101, 1973 DDO-001, and 1972 DDO's 2,3,4,5,7,and 8. I negotiated a cheap bulk submission deal with ANACS and got the best ones graded (about 400 coins). We have been putting them up on eBay SLOWLY. We bought the deal in 2015 and are finally running out of the best coins. The certified ones have done really well, especially the 1971's and the 12 1972 die 4's (which paid for the whole deal in the end). We're going to reach a point where only the problem ones remain (and there are plenty of those) and I'm not sure what we'll be doing then. I'm experimenting with a few things on eBay now to see how it goes with them.
I recommend checking the sold listings on eBay to get an idea of what raw and certified examples are going for there and let that be your guide. The prices you see in the CPG and other publications are retail, and a good rule of thumb for me has been to cut that at least in half. Also, if you sell too many at once, you'll crash the market for them, so unless you have someone willing to buy the whole thing, you'll be in it for the long haul. If you think a dealer will buy them, there is a slim chance, but be prepared to be turned down or severly lowballed by most of them ("There's no market for these" is what you'll hear in almost every case.) That doesn't make them bad people or unethical- they are basing that on what they know about the customer base they have. When we bought the doubled die deal, the seller had been to every dealer in town who passed until he went to my friend's shop and he brought me into the deal, for which we paid a price that made the seller very happy, and left us wondering if we had just buried ourselves.
I have been selling varieties on eBay since 2000. Unless they're super high-end, your market will be on eBay and other online venues only. To get top dollar for them, they must be certified. With some exceptions, you can sell raw ones, but the variety needs to be crystal clear in the images. If the variety is so minor it's difficult to see under a microscope, I wouldn't expect much for them, even certified.
The post above seems like really good, first hand knowledge of what would be involved. To me, selling 400 moderate value coins on eBay over five years sounds like the second circle of Hell, but maybe if you’re already set up for it as a business it wouldn’t be so bad.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
A lot of good information above.
If you're going to be doing 1 and 2, you should excuse yourself from 3 and 4, and skip straight to 5. IMO, there's something unseemly about requesting offers from others and then making one of your own once you know what the other buyers are willing to pay.
But then, that's just me.
Unless the whole family was unbelieveably very coin savy, which is not likely, I would offer to put them in contact with as honest a ultra large dealer that I could and back out of actual involvement. If they should be savy to the value and sales issues of such a coin hoard, then let them sell at auction and take the high cost of auction sales. I feel that your good intentions may bring more harm to you than you would ever overcome.
JMO I truly wish you and the family the best of luck.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
It seems like so much work to assemble and catalog all of that material. Too bad he didn’t have someone close to him he could’ve passed the collection onto.
Bobsled ride to hell
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I actually had fun going through those coins, confirming the seller's attributions and pulling out the best ones for grading. Early on, we did a bulk deal with a big national dealer at one of the big shows and that moved some of them all at once. In the end, we've made a lot of money, and it was certainly worth the time and effort. Do I wish we could've made our profit all at once? Absolutely.
IMO, there's something unseemly about requesting offers from others and then making one of your own once you know what the other buyers are willing to pay.
It is you, because I made no unseemly offers. I offered my experience to assist the family of a departed friend and collector, at no cost (Compensation) when the original appointed helper was lost.
I just have to address and correct this “Unseemly “ statement, As the the forum has a tendency to derail into negative points at times. Nothing unseemly, I never said I was waiting for other offers to make my own.
I said “ I don’t know where to start with making offers on the small amount I am interested in of raw material.
Ideally I would love to acquire all of the rolls (several hundred rolls in all) but I don’t reasonably believe I could afford even a 10th of the hoard.”
Nothing personal, but I have a serious problem with the way some folks misquote and misinterpret comments here, and twist then into a nefarious or a less than honest perspective. This has happened repeatedly on the forum, to myself and others, and it is a sad indication of mindsets when a regular or “known” member is attacked over misquotes or misinformation. Or the assumption is made of “unseemly behavior” that borders on slander occasionally.
Again, not a personal attack against you, just pointing out how quickly remarks can turn disparaging and negative in a completely uncalled for way, suggesting or alluding to accusations of wrong doing or shady behavior.
Assuming positive intent is a life changing perspective and can improve quality of life massively. Assuming negative intent leads to... lots of unwarranted negativity. Not everyone is filled with malevolence.
Best wishes to all!
Rocco
http://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/publishedset.aspx?s=142753
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
I didn't reply to you. My reply was to @SenateSaloon.