How effective is eBays shill bidding detection?
OldGold
Posts: 41 ✭✭
Over the past few weeks I have witnessed what appears to be an eBay seller clearly using shill bidding to keep coins from selling too low on auctions with no reserve and a low opening bid. eBay's policy forbids this, but also has no mechanism in place to report it, only stating that, "If you think that another member is shill bidding, you don't need to report it to us. eBay has a number of systems in place to detect and monitor bidding patterns and practices. If we identify any malicious behavior, we'll take steps to prevent it."
So my question is am I simply reading too much into what I think I'm seeing or is eBay's detection system not as good as they state?
Note: I purposely did not include any seller or bidder names or auction details. If I'm mistaken I would not like to wrongly accuse anyone publicly.
Comments
There's no easy way to know. If I ask a friend to build something up, how would ebay know? They may track bid history, but I have regular customers who are frequent repeat bidders.
So, i'm sure they try, but it is hard to know unless someone is sloppy and overusing it. It is probably even harder for you to tell by looking at bid histories.
If you look at my bid history at Heritage, I look like a shill. I bid on almost everything in certain categories but win very little. And the lots I won are usually because they sold too cheap.
EBay doesn't care at all about shill bidding, sad to say.
You can report it using the Report Item link but no action will be taken.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The Docktor would have been booted from ebay a long time ago if ebay cared!
If you think you are being run up...retract bid and watch what happens. I have seen it happen multiple times where I watched something run up, I retracted and then suddenly the item gets relocated because the dude running me up was a shill on behalf of the seller and I dropped it on them. Glad it does not happen to much but a couple times a year
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I never once worried about a shill bidder as I buy coins at my price.
I somewhat agree with this. I only overbid by choice. I think of shills as being a hidden, secret reserve.
HOWEVER, you would want to think that an auction is more open than that. If you want a reserve on your auction, set one. Don't trick people into thinking it is a no reserve auction and then try to run them up.
I haven't had to overpay yet, once I saw what was going on, I left them as the high bidder every time. Just frustrating to know someone doing it only to relist the coin again. At least they are paying to relist it.
Waste of time to try to figure it out.
Do you like the coin the seller has? Seems like you do.
Pick your price and stick to it. If it is a really nice coin, bid accordingly.
I have caught and reported several obvious examples of sellers engaged in this. So blatant and sloppy that the exact coins won by the shill (to prevent them from going for too low a price), were relisted by the seller a week to ten days later.
It's not in eBay's economic interest to reign in volume sellers, so nothing is done. The higher the final sales price the better for them.
Something to consider if you're thinking about retracting your bid to try to see if you're being shilled- retracting bids is something shillers do. If I notice a bidder with a lot of retractions, I block them. I don't need buyers thinking I've got someone shill bidding for me.
If they have a store, the relist is free.
That would explain a lot then.
Even if you don't have a store, the relist is cheap.
But if the shill wins the coin do they cancel the transaction after the sale (to save the fees) then relist, or let the sale go through and take that loss?
I know reserves on E-Bay cost a good bit and aren't cost effective on coins under a couple hundred bucks.
I think shills are a problem, but also bid retractions used to uncover high bids.
@DollarAfterDollar said:
ebay has no incentives to keep sales prices low - their programs detect sellers who cancel auctions and do not pay fees
I am not sure how the advanced shillers do it - possibly pay from shill account and then return as not as described?
If I think I am being shilled and retract and then no more bids..if the item is relisted than you pretty much know that is what is going on. Particularly if the dude bumping it up has sub 25 bid history. Pretty much a shill account. It is a buyers market and Since eBay does nothing to stop the shill game, it is Everyman for themselves. I love the “you have a second chance” email. I have a second chance because your scheme failed
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I usually just bid once...and if I am looking for a coin, it is usually an early bid.... then watch what happens...If it is a coin I want, and the total price near the end is within what I am willing to pay, I will slam a nuclear bid with less than five seconds to go.... This has always worked for me. The final price has always been a bid or two above what was last shown prior to my final bid. Works for me...Cheers, RickO
But if they do that, they are going to have the PayPal fees to pay (3%).